Question for a expert keto individual...?

[Herewego]

Like I mentioned before I have been Keto since Jan…
Test my blood ketos regularly… been monitoring what I eat to try to stay in ketosis… what I have discovered is if I eat, pecans, avocados, fresh ground peanut butter, cream, my ketos stay in the high range, the day incorporate meat my levels drop by 4 points. which is still great however why would meat drop my keto levels? I have been monitoring this for a couple weeks and it’s difinitely when I eat meat… what does grass feed beef have sugar in it … .
How much protein ? a good sized burger 6-7 oz just one , this has happened twice…
Answers?.

[Shortstuff]

Most likely the protein but levels are up and down naturally throughout the day anyway.

[MarkGossage]

a good sized burger 6-7 oz just one

Home made or bought? some burgers can contain carby fillers… just a thought…

[Herewego]

Purchased the grass feed beef at a market … fried in Ghee …it’s very lean not much fat at all …that could be the factor, like I mentioned both times I had a burger( same meat) my levels dropped considerably…
it’s really something to consider when doing Keto some proteins may knock you out of ketosis… in no way was this too much protein …

[MarkGossage]

I eat a lot of protein (carnivore at the moment) and don’t get very high ketone levels but remain in ketosis full time. To be honest so long as I am in ketosis (probably for the past 2 years) I see wildly varying levels unless on extended fasts when they go through the roof (I have seen up to 7 mmol/l) .
Edi to add what units of measurement and method of measuring are you using for ketones?

[Herewego]

I use Nova Max…blood testing…
I certainly feel more energetic, not as tired if I stay at the upper levels of Ketosis…

I certainly don’t mind eating Avocados, fresh ground peanut butter along with pecans…to keep my levels on the high end…

I also had a problem with bacon did the bacon challenge only had bacon, black coffee, I even dipped my bacon in butter… my keto levels stayed about .06 for the week… scale moved up 2 lbs… I played it off as the bacon may have had sugar in it…

My body doesn’t do well with meat protein obviously…

[atomicspacebunny]

I would try keeping that burger around 3 or 4 .OZ over that amount it turns to glucose/sugar (gluconeogenesis) and BAM ketones plummet!

Same goes for the fat intake; will turn to sugar/glucose if you eat too much!

Tip: Watch the sugar in that peanut butter (even in fresh ground), that may have something to do with it also?

Some words by Richard on 27 month (fat adaption) threshold on metered blood ketones not urinalysis sticks:

Blood ketone level clarification

Dr Phinney :phinney: invented the term so he gets to define it. [image] In his book “The art and science of low carbohydrate living” he gives the range from 0.5 to 3.0 mmol/l But recently he mentioned that some of Dr Volek’s very athletic subjects were clearly in ketosis at 0.2 mmol/l. My personal range is from 0.2 to 0.8 mmol/l, and I have been in ketosis for almost 3 years. Prof Tim Noakes is also normally in the same range 0.2-0.8. I suspect when we first start we aren’t good at using t…

[PrimalBrian]

3 or 4 .OZ over that amount it turns to glucose/sugar (gluconeogenesis) and BAM ketones plummet!

Same goes for the fat intake; will turn to sugar/glucose if you eat too much!

Can you please explain this more? I understand the “Too Much Protein Turns into Chocolate Cake” concept (which apparently is not a thing; see below).

However, the “Too Much Fat Turns Into Glucose” is a new one to me and I’d like to learn more.

The best that the scientific studies can tell us is this: The rate of gluconeogenesis is essentially fixed, and there’s not much that we can do to change it. Certainly, what you eat can manipulate insulin and slow down GNG, but there is no evidence that we can speed up GNG by consuming more protein (or lactate, or glycerol, or anything else).

Gluconeogenesis - The worst name for a rock band ever - Ketogains

[atomicspacebunny]

We Really Can Make Glucose From Fatty Acids After All! O Textbook, How Thy Biochemistry Hast Deceived Me!

Stop telling newbies to eat more fat!

If I stand to be corrected? Glucose: Fat can turn into sugar and sugar can turn into fat as well as protein turning into sugar? When first starting a ketogenic diet you take it slow on how much (amount) fat and protein you are consuming especially in the case of diabetic ketonauts? When you are fully-ketogenic-adapted after 27 weeks or so and the cells of the body are more prone to ACTUALLY using the fat for fuel i.e. ketones, then increasing (hence “eating fat to satiety”) fat consump…

[PrimalBrian]

Thanks for the link, @atomicspacebunny. Masterjohn is legit and a prime source of info.

If I read your link correctly, it is true that the body can convert fatty acids to glucose. However, to me it seems this suffers from the same fallacy as the “Protein Into Chocolate Cake” argument:

These processes are demand-driven not supply-driven. Meaning, the body only does this if it needs to make glucose, not just because we dumped too much protein or fat into it. The body’s smarter than that. In other words, if insulin is low, the body doesn’t just willy nilly turn extra protein and fat into glucose.

If we really do make glucose from fatty acids when times are tight as all of this evidence so strongly suggests, there should be a way for our bodies to regulate this process so that it only kicks in when we are in need of glucose. Indeed, such a mechanism exists.

Well, at least that’s my pre-coffee takeaway.

[atomicspacebunny]

Translation – eat an appropriate amount of protein for your lean mass, as we’ve said all along.

Meaning: 3 to 4 oz. maybe more or less?

[atomicspacebunny]

The body’s smarter than that. In other words, if insulin is low, the body doesn’t just willy nilly turn extra protein and fat into glucose.

It most certainly does because the body is using a combination of glucose and ketones for energy, if the brain tells the liver “hey buddy I need some glucose”…lol

Eating too much fat and protein is the reason so many people have problems and they end up seeking professional help to figure out what they are doing wrong and guess what? It is precisely what I am talking about in this thread “eating too much fat and protein!”

[PrimalBrian]

It most certainly does because the body is using a combination of glucose and ketones for energy, if the brain tells the liver “hey buddy I need some glucose”…lol

Absolutely! That’s why I qualified it with “willy nilly” meaning “for no reason.” Certainly, if the brain needs glucose, it’ll convert (i.e., demand driven). However, if someone is keto/fat-adapted, that shouldn’t be necessary due to adequate ketones to assist with fueling brain function.

[lfod14]

Eating causes insulin, people like to forget that. If the stomach stretches it causes more of a response. Insulin is also responsible for getting OTHER nutrients into cells and muscles not just fat, which is why in the weight lifting world people drink post workout drinks with juice and dextrose to shuttle all the into where they want it more efficiently. It’s insulin SPIKES we want to avoid, as well as higher GI stuff that brings us up and leaves us high for hours. You never mentioned what your levels were but 4 points regardless is completely ignorable. Our levels fluctuate all day long regardless. On the how much protein question, that’s dependent on each person. Are you physically active? Do cardio or resistance training? From my personal experience and going by many others I’m personally not a fan of going much below 100g, some people are way below that. SOME people have identified that they’re touchy with protein and that’s a different story. But protein doesn’t have to be feared like most people fear it ESPECIALLY if you exercise!

[atomicspacebunny]

Some other little caveats to be aware of:

1. “… Anecdotally, higher levels of ketones may actually slow down fat loss. Individuals who maintain lower ketone levels (trace ketones) appear to lose fat more efficiently. Why does that happen? One explanation may be that high levels of ketones in the bloodstream may slightly raise insulin and block the release of free fatty acids from fat cells. Also, when becoming keto-adapted, some individuals tolerate relatively greater carbohydrate intakes without disrupting ketosis. *It’s up to you to find your optimal carbs intake+. As I’ve explained above, more ketones won’t help you burn significantly more calories - no studies show such effects. As long as you stay in nutritional ketosis (0.5 to 3.0 mM), moderate amounts of carbohydrates can be added to your diet. …” …More

2. ”… For the avid keto folks who have been on the diet for a while, you may be using the ketone blood meter instead. Your testing time, as noted above, depends on why you’re testing. Testing while fasted can be a great way to determine your baseline ketone levels. However, you may find it interesting to see how your body adapts to different foods or even after training. For this reason, testing blood ketones can be done throughout the day to provide a nice snapshot of what is currently going on in your body! Keep in mind, however that movement and exercise can drastically change the dynamics of ketone readings and thus may show differences in levels even with just a mild walk around the house. …” …More (page removed dead link)