Persistent views on weight loss


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #21

Dr. Phinney has a chart showing how this works. When we start giving our body very little carbohydrate and yet eat to satiation, the body soon regulates the appetite so that our food intake fuels about 60% of our metabolic needs, and excess body fat makes up the remaining 40%. But over time, as we shed fat, the percentages gradually change, while we still eat to satiety, so that if we stay on keto long enough, we have shed all our excess fat, and our food intake at that point satisfies 100% of our metabolic needs.

The caloric need may be a bit lower at this point than it was originally, given that we have less body mass to feed, but the key is not to eat to a caloric target, rather to let the body dictate food consumption by following our appetite. I’ve noticed, as well, that while appetite varies from day to day, my weight on keto has been stable since the initial loss.

Dr. Phinney said once, in an interview with the Dudes, that he and Prof. Volek generally have seen fat losses amounting to 20% of starting body weight. Richard responds that his fat loss was actually about 25%, so he is ahead of the game. I’m in the same situation, having lost about the same percentage. I wouldn’t object to losing another 30 kg or so, but there we are.


#22

Now thats one I’ve never heard! My wife has been having hunger issues, which isn’t normal for her, what she calls a feast I call a snack while my real meal is cooking! But we’re in that time where last month or so she cranked up her allergy meds, place has been dusted in green for 2 weeks. She had me up her Semaglutide dose to try to fight it. I gotta look into that one!

YUP!


#23

My experiences from 25 years (on and off Keto) are the same as Phinney says.

I’m at - 20% weight since October now and I’m expecting a slowdown. Wwight does not matter much but I want two more inches to go from my waist…

I still have not learned to quote a whole post here.


(KM) #24

I’ve lost and kept off 25% of my pre-keto body weight. It’s been about 2 years at my current weight, so maybe too early to say for sure, but I think I’m stabilized at this number.

I do weigh in every day. So it’s possible my awareness of my weight helps keep my eating in check, but I don’t intentionally limit myself other than sticking with no/low carb.


#25

Yes to some extent but it’s way more important how our satiation is affected. Many people eat little on a very calorie dense keto because they get so satiated by fat. While fat satiates me very poorly (well, it’s effective if I already had a lot of protein… and not at all if I didn’t), I don’t even know if carbs or fat are the worse at the moment…
But indeed, calorie dense food may be very easy to overeat if the satiation effect is poor. A few bites can give 100g extra fat so easily, I need a bigger amount with low calorie density - but I easily eat 2kg food in one sitting if it doesn’t satiate me… I notice it though and I have a longer time to act while eating something with 90-100% fat can boost calories way too quickly. I have a fav food item where I probably easily can go way over 1000kcal per minute. Probably not for very long but I don’t dare to try.

Everyone losing fat gets energy from body fat, no matter if it’s keto, HCHF or a long fast.

It’s clearly not true, people even have different bodyfat :smiley: Not every underweight person dies of hunger on keto I am pretty sure! But even among fat ones, there are individual differences. Even full carnivore couldn’t do the trick that well to me but if I am very focused, I may have a tiny deficit. Or I can eat twice my needed calories, it’s very enjoyable and may automatically happens if I eat too fatty meat.
There are too many different kinds of people, of course it’s not nearly that simple. I saw way more disciplined ones than me (well the bar is low, I am not disciplined at all IMO) and some seriously struggled. Keto doesn’t make fat-loss easy for everyone, not even with a ton of extra rules and fasting. One is older, less enthusiastic, less fat and bam, the results are very different. And it’s the same person. Our past matters too, I partially blame it when it comes to my overeating on any diet. I just want too much food and too much fat. And the good diet that can make me happy with less, has too many rules and my mental sabotage happens. But there is another day, another chance and I get more experienced as time passes and it should help eventually.


#26

Sure. But I repeat: BMR calc does not take that into account , so people who obey and eat by those numbers are overeating.


#27

But people have no idea about their BMR to begin with… We can’t calculate it. I never really had an idea about it even when I pretty much new my average TDEE.
BMR has nothing to do with getting energy from body fat, it’s just the energy to need for existing without the exercise, right? I never cared about my BMR (I mean, it’s nice if it’s not super low but my eating isn’t depended on it) but the CICO site I frequent (tons of my old recipes are there, it’s easy to find them :smiley: sometimes I track with it too) is very big on not eating below BMR. I find it stupid as an inactive fat one has no choice but stay fat then as they can’t make even a small but significant deficit without going below… But what do I know? I just care about my energy need and try to eat a bit below. Not like I know my energy need, I just suppose it haven’t changed very much in the last… When was when I have lost fat last time? IDK, 6-8 years… Near obviously off keto…


(Bean) #28

I hadn’t either, which makes me kind of cranky. I’m a pretty informed person. I didn’t have a lot of options at the time- I was a pet owner allergic to my pets- but even now doing food re-intros, I’m picking and choosing my ways to manage reactions that isn’t the 24-hour antihistamines.

I talked my NP into giving me a tiny dose of steroids to take “as needed” as part of the taper off of that stuff. Zyrtec is one of the worst to come off of, I guess.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #29

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(Cathy) #30

I have been low carb/keto consistently since 2009. I have lost about 30% of my starting body weight but in the first year it was closer 25%. Weight loss slowed to an almost undetectable rate. However over the years, I have continued to lose on average a couple lbs. a year until this past year and 1/2 (have had some big challenges/stress).

I would be happy to lose another 20 lbs. but my point is that weight loss isn’t about the calories I consume. It is just way more complicated than that.

As humans, we lean towards saying it is something the individual is doing wrong to cause the problem if we don’t have an answer. What is more accurate is to respond with ‘I don’t know’.


#31

Why does not body fat energy matter to you? Or do you just want to argue?

That is the main point of Keto.

It’s a very important thing to be taken into account when determining needed dietary calorie intake after a BMR measurement plus exercise. It should be included in the calculation. BMR analyzers do not show it. Excercise can be measured, BMR can be measured.

Lost body FAT can be weighed.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #32

My only caveat to this way of looking at things is that for two million years our hunter-gatherer ancestors were healthy and trim, even in the absence of metabolic analyses and calculations of food intake. They ate when they had food and fasted when they did not. Appetite was a sufficient guide to how much food to eat.

A study of caloric intake versus energy expenditure that I read remarks that on any given day, ad libitum intake appears unrelated to that day’s energy expenditure. However, over any given seven- or eight-day period, the correlation between intake and expenditure “was astonishingly precise.”


#33

Yeah,I’m not personally advocating those calculations as the best way to go. But they can be made if it makes one feel better. Some people like theories,math and guidelines. And those calculations work for some as proven in this thread by Kib.

20+ years ago I lost mucho weight by eating 3000+ kcal / day. Now I surprisingly need a deficit from a (calculated,not measured) 1800 kcal BMR as measurement based calculators do. And I’m still never hungry. Funny that a 100 € Omron body measuring scale suggests the same 1800 BMR…

But I’m not a proof of anything and this thread is not about me. And the quality of those calories matters the most, try eating 1800 kcal of carbs/day…

These scales most definitely do not show absolute values. But it’s been fun to watch the trend, fat% BMI etc getting lower as I’m losing weight. BMR is going down,too.

But I’m not interested enough to go to a proper BMR lab test. All is going good.


#34

Not worth it, I did it years ago, and at the time it was worth if because we had no other good options then, it was right and was one of the reasons I realized how bad my metabolic rate was, but now even macro trackers like MacroFactor can figure it out perfectly (after a couple weeks). A year of that is cheaper than having it tested, cost me like $75 I think for the RMR test, realistically you could use MacroFactor for a month and do the same thing for less than $10.

Same goes for my Hume BodyPod scale, so far it’s lined up with DEXA which is it’s claim to fame, if it does that a second time I may stop getting my 1-2x a year DEXA’s as well. Those things are like $85-125 depending on the direction of the wind apparently. Being a data nerd, its fun when I see the scale jump 3-4lbs after I overdo it and can physically see the water in me, then the scale says my water weight it up a couple. I wanted to beleive, but lots of "smart"scales over the years have been crap. This one is living up to it so far. We’ll see who takes them on and does something better.


(Family, Honor, Freedom) #35

Overeating is my issue. I’ve lost 70 lbs eating low-carb. And I’ve gained 70 lbs eating low carb. Having an extra couple of dinners late at night will do that - “keto” or not.


#36

Weight loss is a side effect of pursuing healthiness.


(Cathy) #37

If I were to have a ‘couple of extra dinners’ I would not be keto unless those dinners were 100% fat or close to that. Also eating frequently has been proven to trigger insulin (the fat storage hormone) so that could be at issue as well.

A well known diabetes doc suggests that eating just to the point of extending your abdomen is also a trigger for insulin.

So many factors in weight loss/gain!