Pemmican - Does meat, fat and berries vindicate the WoE changes of Paul Saladino MD?

#5

I just skimmed the page, nope, I don’t agree with it for myself. There isn’t a One True Way anyway.

I have always thought that berries were in because

  • flavor. it’s just spice in a wider sense
  • it was available in smallish amounts so they put it in, very understandably
  • maybe Vitamin C if one seriously depends on pemmican for a longer while? drying meat preserves it too but pemmican is quite fatty so the meat isn’t much and I imagine people who only had pemmican couldn’t eat a ton of it…?

As someone with carnivore-ish as a chosen woe, these vegan-like things don’t scare me off (what was the last one, carcasses and secretions? :D) and honey is totally a plant food to me, bees are involved, bless their tiny hearts (honey is one of the tastiest and prettiest things ever, I am not sold on its healthiness though)… But otherwise I agree. It’s almost pure sugar, if I add something to carnivore (I am very far from even keto nowadays and it’s not the biggest problem with my life. I should go back), that definitely WON’T be that. More like some protein rich plant matter, not a big selection there though. Many legumes are super delicious but extremely carby for me. So imagine how I view honey, good thing it’s practically inedible for me in big amounts like 10g at once, alone. Most fruits are way too sweet for me as well. Some vegs too. But I digress. Just can’t wrap my head around people who mostly eat carnivore and add this super dense sugar. Okay, surely many people look at these things differently, they may handle pure sugars well too… Still, it’s the opposite end of the spectrum, kind of the opposite of carnivore (sometimes my English fail me, I am sure there are better words for it, oh well). Though I eat plenty of sugar on carnivore too but that’s animal sugar :upside_down_face: Feels nothing like honey or fruit, my body is happy with it. And I can handle a little fruit. Honey is too much, even in tiny amounts.

It’s the same with fruit: it may have something useful in them but

  1. I don’t need them physically, I have carnivore food for nutrition (other people may be different, sure and I do need them for other reasons. sometimes, a bit. I am love with them, it’s very clear)
  2. even if they bring a tiny useful stuff, they mostly bring super much unnecessary, unwanted and as the amounts get bigger, progressively more negative sugar content. Bad, bad deal beyond the tiny amount of the most blissful kind, occasionally. (I wish I could listen to myself, my hedonism is at a very low level nowadays, not enough focus on the big picture while it’s the biggest part of hedonism, it’s very stupid and weak hedonism to indulge in things for the short term joy ignoring negative effects coming later. People should be way more hedonistic if you ask me.)
(Edith) #6

The only thing Paul Saladino appears to do these days is self-promotion on social media. Does he even do anything worthwhile any more?

(Bean) #7

@FrankoBear, I’ve been pondering this during my workout this morning. Have you taken a look at histamine intolerance?

My heart does race when my histamine bucket overflows.

Might be something for you to consider.

(Chuck) #8

I just a mixed berry mix for my smoothies and have done so for a number of years. And I have eaten berries my whole live. I find nothing wrong with eating berries. I also eat meat, all types of meat. I do believe that there are people with different reactions to all types of food items. I was raised to eat farm fresh food, vegetables, dairy, meat, fruits and berries. I don’t eat factory processed food, fast food or drink soft drinks. I am 77 years old, never hospitalized, no surgeries or illness worse than the flu. We are what we eat is very true. And the human body was meant to consume factory created crap or drugs. I am also prescription drug free.

(KM) #9

My guess is that berries were added to pemmican as one of the first “enriched” foods. All in one, rather than trying to procure and carry citrus fruit to prevent scurvy.

(Bean) #10

That and Europeans had a sweet tooth.

Pemmican was so important that there were skirmishes fought over who could sell it, etc. (sorry- history nerd. I can cite my work if you like, just not ATM).

#11

Kinda literally his job. Also has a supplement and a food company.

(Joey) #12

Worse yet, I’ve recently heard that the majority of honey sold has been cut with sugar, corn syrup, etc., to bring down the production cost. Truth to this? :thinking:

(Chuck) #13

I get my honey straight from the source. I use it sparingly but it is better for me than most artificial sweeteners or sugar itself. It has another benefit as it helps keep my allergies under control.

(Joey) #14

I suspect that’s the key. Committed beekeepers who treasure their art and science would never dilute their hard-earned product.

As with most everything we ingest, know the source. :+1:

#15

Me too, always did that because of course I did. Hungary has beekeepers everywhere, whenever I moved, I have searched for the best nearby :wink: Those were delicious decades but I have other delicious things now (and still taste a bit of honey here and there but we don’t keep it around anymore. but I still eat a bit more honey than added sugar just like before I went low-carb… yep, I ate a lot of honey back then even though I didn’t get near to the average added sugar consumption because that is INSANE).

I am fine with sugar alcohols but they aren’t food and rarely ever needed… I sweeten my usual desserts with lactose.
And my SO mostly uses raisins. In 95% of his desserts. So we don’t eat a lot of sweetener and it’s good as they are quite pricy…

Whatever one uses, amount matters the most.

(Alec) #16

No.

#17

That’s why I posted the Ultimate Health podcast January interview at the top. I find him quite knowledgeable, and his interpretation of available information is quite logical. He’s just so intense it can be exhausting. I reckon he might not be getting all the benefits from the surfing. I hang in with him and his viewpoint because he has put on the surfer’s image for now. The part where he talks about aluminium underwear is quite hilarious.

(Edith) #18

I listened to a podcast with him; oh, maybe a year ago. He was discussing why he added carbs to his diet. I totally get why he did it, but what bothered me was as a result, he seemed to have completely turned against low carb/keto. It appeared to me that he is of the opinion that if something works for him, it must work for everybody, and if it doesn’t work for him, it must be wrong for everybody. There is no nuance with him.

#19

Correct-o! My wifes and brothers allergies are noticeable better with real raw local honey. I’ve wondered if (any) of the hype with manuka holds up.

(Edith) #20

It sure tastes good!!!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #21

No. The original recipe was meat and fat only. The berries were added to make the pemmican more palatable to the European colonists.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #22

No one with access to fresh meat ever develops scurvy. We actually know why the tribes started adding berries to their pemmican, and it was a marketing decision (to cater for the white colonists’ taste preferences), not a health-driven one.

The problem the British Navy faced with scurvy was the lack of fresh meat on long deployments. They knew fresh meat prevented scurvy centuries before they knew about citrus and vitamin C.

As you can imagine, only a limited number of ruminant animals could be loaded on those cramped sailing ships when they set sail, and the supply of fresh meat eventually ran out. After that, the sailors’ diet consisted entirely of salt beef and hard-tack biscuit. Once the anti-scorbutic effect of citrus fruits was discovered in the early nineteenth century, the British Navy eagerly adopted citrus fruits as a convenient, more easily-stored substitute for fresh meat.

Of course, the advent of modern refrigeration rendered all this moot.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #23

Sally K. Norton said in an interview that Saladino had been a long-term vegan before coming to carnivore, and at first he felt great, as would be expected, but then his body started dumping its oxlate stores. That’s a painful process. Oxalate dumping can be controled by eating foods containing oxalates, so no wonder he felt better from adding carbs to his diet.

So the lesson we should take from this is not that carnivore is bad for people, it’s that oxalate dumping needs to be kept to a controlled rate. Sally Norton has some good suggestions for how to do this on her Web site.

(Bob M) #24

I listened to many podcasts with him. On multiple ones of them (one involving covid), he was completely wrong. Anyone remember when he said that you had to eat raw liver and raw yolks but not the whites of eggs? Or when he said that covid would cover and go through every part of a ship, apparently not realizing that there are different compartments on ships to prevent this from specifically happening (if fire starts in one location, you don’t want it to go through an entire ship, so you work to try to prevent that).

I stopped listening to him after that, and that was when he was still carnivore.