Pain in right side 3 months into Keto when fasting

liver

(Chele Eva Armstrong) #21

Hey wow! Thanks Richard for taking time to answer. I am seeing a doc, but they are telling me keto is bad.


(Allie) #22

Can you see a different doc that is more supportive of keto so will look beyond it, rather than blame it? :heart:


#23

When I saw that you are using ACV I had to comment. I had similar pains. They went away when I stopped the ACV. Just a thought


(Chele Eva Armstrong) #24

James, thanks for letting me know.
Update I am doing better and the the liver enzymes are down now, still have to be very careful about everything. Weight loss has stopped I might loose .5 per month. But if I mess up I gain really fast!.

Still so glad I found this diet!


(Chele Eva Armstrong) #25

It could be BUT I definitely have a fatty liver, Ultrasound confirmed


(Keara Mc Cardle) #26

**I have Non Alcoholic fatty Liver and also on Keto. Removed gall bladder and removed lower portion of my pancreases. **

**First off, you need to understand how keto can help some liver issues, but however if you are having liver and kidneys issues, keto you have change your intakes . You need to limit your triglycerides, saturated fats, and trans fats. You have to eat Low herrin meat intake and higher Omega , like fatty fish, instead of bacon. Non herrin meats are stuff like Sardines, beef and chicken livers. ****

**The nutrient choline for its role in preventing fatty liver. Choline is abundant in meat and other animal proteins, which is the mainstay of the ketogenic diet.Choline plays a role in the synthesis of phopholipids, phosphatidylcholine and sphinogomyelin, the key structural components of the human cell membrane. which if you have damage in your liver from the fatty liver, it helps. ****

The ketogenic diet is generally not suitable for a very long duration. It can promote uric acid accumulation in the tissues, osteoporosis, mineral imbalances, nutrient deficiencies and muscle protein loss over time I was advised to not stay keto for more than 3 months at a time, then break for awhile, to a more whole foods or vegetarian diet, stay off the sugars, and stay moderate lower carbs, and alternate.**

You have to really be extra vigilant about minerals, and supplements are your only real consistent help. Makes sure your getting your minerals, and salts in everyday. Lots of dark leafy greens daily and dark rich antioxidant berries. Cruciferous Vegetable;s. Fatty liver disease is potentially very serious if it is allowed to progress and should be addressed.**

Stay away from the wine, it will do more harm than good with your current conditions.
**Feel free to google Dr. Eric Berg DC videos where his discusses keto and fatty liver and **
Thomas DeLauer and his youtube videos on fatty liver and ketoā€¦and how to fix it


(Rob) #27

I wonder who told you that. Sorry, itā€™s not true just someoneā€™s uninformed opinion. There are plenty of people on these forums who have kept keto for years and have better organ health, blood markers and bone density because of it. This is garbage talk unfortunately which sounds like comparing a clinical keto diet (90% fat etc.) to a normal keto diet (65-80% fat).

Keto as practiced by most is full of leafy/cruciferous greens, berries, and has all the necessary vitamins and minerals or is supplemented appropriately. This is just veggie fear mongering.


(Greg Borchert) #28

I disagree Rob. Many keto advocates, especially those who are athletes, use keto two to three months a year and then shift to a more balanced diet. Mark Sisson and Brad Kearns, for example, advocate eight weeks of keto a year. Once you become fat adapted and have trained your body to use fat for energy, it is easier to stay in ketosis on a modified Atkins kind of diet. Many people who are athletically active, who compete, find that they lack that needed burst of energy on a ketogenic diet. Endurance, yes. You have endurance in spades on keto. Strength with endurance, probably not so much. Iā€™m talking about cycling specifically in my case. 100 mile rides with the need to have an energy burst at times. Put it this way. The non-ketogenic Maximum HR standard for exercise is 220 BPM minus age. On a ketogenic diet that standard falls to 180 BPM minus age. If you are 50 years old that means that on a ketogenic diet, you should limit your exercise exertion to a maximum HR of 130 BPM. Beyond that ketones arenā€™t as good a fuel source. Scientific studies involving competitive athletes have shown this to be true. Also, the point for me is not being on some diet but feeling better and having more energy for all of life. I once weighed 315 pounds. I lost 120 pounds in 1998 on a higher protein very low carb diet, went from 315 down to 195. I have kept the weight off for twenty years tracking food every day, and keeping my carbs low. But, whether or not Iā€™m in ketosis every day is the least of my worries.


(Rob) #29

I agree with your points but I think the debate comes down to the definition of keto and the relevance of using athletes as a rebuttal. If you think of it as 20g carbs all the time then I would agree, you donā€™t need to do that forever, or at all in the case of athetes who are almost certainly vastly more metabolically flexible and insulin sensitive than many people here. They can achieve ketosis on 5x those carbs and a performance carb up is irrelevant for someone who will burn off that glucose/glycogen quick sharp.
I prefer to think of keto as a broader church that doesnā€™t even necessarily depend on ketosis per se but typically does and probably should for many.
None of this really negates the fear mongering above and isnā€™t really relevant for the vast majority of people starting or in the middle of their journeys to become healthy IMHO.


(Greg Borchert) #30

All good points! Keto is a way of life, not just a diet. Itā€™s a journey into getting in touch with oneā€™s own body, and accepting responsibility for oneā€™s own health. This stuff can be very complicated, when you try to figure out why your body is acting one way or another. This forum is a great resource that helps people sort it out.


(Rob) #31

Couldnā€™t agree moreā€¦ :fist_left:


(Mike Glasbrener) #32

You are confusing things a bit. When fat adapted the fuel mix changes. I.e. Youā€™re able to metabolize fat at a much higher rate. Thus your able to run at higher heart rates/powers for endurance. You give up a bit of peak power. However, youā€™ll have less fatigue when peak power needs (steep climbing) come and recover faster.

MAF training hr is 180-age not max HR. I think it could be higher if youā€™re fat adapted. However, Iā€™ll defer to @ianrobo for a definitive answer.


(Greg Borchert) #33

Thanks for the information. What I have experienced so far is that I donā€™t have the burst performance on ketones as on glucose. Steady energy yes. I am hoping that improves over time.


(ianrobo) #34

Well Peter Defty claims you can add ten on but likes of Brad Kearbs against this and I fall in between ! MAF is all about lowering the stress that exercise puts on you but we have to remeber you then have to tailor it to your aims, so for exampkecwant much more power then have to do HIIT


(Empress of the Unexpected) #35

Thank you for those thoughts. I just started a month ago and I can tell you that my diet is much more nutritious than before. I used to just eat bacon for breakfast and wonder why I was so hungry. On Keto I eat bacon, veggies and butter. Iā€™m eating so many more veggies. Itā€™s possible the naysayers are comparing Keto to the food pyramid. But in reality the majority of overweight diabetic Americans are getting their carbs from fries. I will stick with veggies. Berries and salmon anytime, for good health


(koalalue) #36

I have been dealing with the same thing. Iā€™ve had 2 CT Scans, an ultrasound, and CBC done to try and figure out what causing the pain and bloating. The only thing weā€™ve discovered so far is gallbladder sludge. I went off the diet a few days ago and am hoping that the situation will start to resolve. BTW, I lost 0 pounds in one month.


(Alec) #37

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong. Your max HR is your max HR, regardless of what diet you are on. The 220-age calc is a gross generalisation average across the whole population. Many are over that number, many are under.

The 180-age is a MAF (ref Phil Mafetone) calculation that provides a guide for what you should aim for during long slow distance training that trains the body to use fat for fuel. In no way is it a max number.

I personally have found I can go faster on all my runs (minimum 5k) on keto than carbed up. My opinion is as long as you are very fat adapted you can go as fast if not faster fuelled by fat.


(ianrobo) #38

I do believe that as well Alec, my max HR at the moment is 187 and I am 46 ā€¦ and because fat adaption means a much larger aerobic base it gives you much more when you really need it !


(Kris) #39

I wish that people would slow down on the response to people with fatty liver ā€“ ā€œketo is the best diet for fatty liver! It heals it!ā€.

While I completely agree that the keto diet heals the fatty liver for people, I do think (from personal experience) that going on the keto diet exacerbated my fatty liver symptoms. Up until that point, I wasnā€™t aware that I had anything like fatty liver (and still it is not diagnosed, because my doctor acted like nothing was wrong when I asked about pressure under my rib cage after eating my evening meal).

Iā€™ve been reading as much as I can about the situation, and I think that it may have been written by someone on this forum that they too, had lots of pressure/mild pain while on the keto diet. It continued for weeks, and the only way they could solve the pain was by eating some quinoa/rice/ some kind of small amount of grain.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe people like me can do one of two things 1) grin and bare the pressure that eating fat causes to our liver, knowing that in a few weeks it will get better, or 2) eat a small amount of grain because it makes us feel better ā€“ knowing that our weight loss will be slower. Whoever it was who suggested this maintained that eating this small amount of grain EASED THEM into the Keto lifestyle and habits, and then later once they felt better, they were easily able to get off the grains and do the full Keto fats, etc. While others can do Keto (including people with fatty livers) and not feel any pressure, there is a number of us who do Keto and feel pretty awful ā€“ making us wonder if we are doing something bad for our bodies. Maybe itā€™s purely that we need to be slightly more moderate in the removal of our carbs from our system.


(Stephen Mc Nally) #40

To all and @Mevysmoon , look into choline supplementation. Iā€™ve done 23 and me and have a bunch of choline inefficiences. Low choline is also related to NAFLD in that choline is required for allowing triglycerides to exit into the bloodstream from the liver. Iā€™m nearly a week into keto and added 600mg choline choline bitartrate which turns into about 300mg bio available choline. Unless you are going to be guzzling egg yolkā€¦ or starting to eat beef/chicken liver, highly recommend a choline source. You can also go the CDP-Choline or Alpha GPC route but its more expensive, but worth it if you are also into nootropics. Cheers.