Less than 10 grams of cabs per day safe mid term?


(Mike D) #21

Hmmm… So theoretically this could mean that a large sudden glucose load in a carnivore could very well lead to a dangerous 24 hour period of serum glucose. Which could have some moderately serious short term effects on the cardiovascular system.

(Mike D) #22

Slowed to a crawl? Are you at zero carbs religiously? Do you happen to know how many total calories you are consuming in a day?

(Allie) #23

I wake at 530 and wish I could sleep for another hour at least :rofl:

(Bacon enough and time) #24

It takes decades of persistent chronic hyperglycaemia and hyperinsulinaemia to cause the cumulative damage most people experience, so a single acute episode is not likely to do too much damage, especially if it’s not repeated. The persistent glucose exposure from eating the Standard American Diet is what causes the pancreas to overwork and other cells to become insulin-resistant.

While acute spikes in serum glucose or serum insulin are not desirable (and too rapid a rise in serum glucose could conceivably be fatal), over the long term it’s more in the nature of a bump in the road. For those using a ketogenic diet to shed excess fat, any significant rise in serum insulin is undesirable, because insulin is the primary fat-storage hormone, and while it is high the body can neither metabolise fatty acids nor can the adipocytes release them to be metabolised, since elevated insulin inhibits the activity of hormone-sensitive lipase.

(Mike D) #25

Nice! Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I appreciate your time and effort Paul. I may in fact in the future private message you here if I have any questions. Does this forum have a “private message” option?

(Bacon enough and time) #26

It certainly has. Click on your avatar, then on the envelope icon at the top right of the drop-down menu. Use @PaulL as the addressee.

Also, the software used by these forums has an actual functioning search feature, unlike the search functions in social media. You might find useful information that way. But also don’t hesitate to post or send a PM.

(Mike D) #27

Ok thank you! I was on this forum briefly about 7 months ago, but was not here long enough to learn my way around. I am hoping to find some more information on the fat adaptation process and these recurring consistent reports of peoples serum BHB falling farther into their diet progress. I am wondering if a similar thing is happening to me and it is why my ketones have become so damn hard to detect the longer time goes on.

If this gives a reasonable explanation I would feel more comfortable adding more calories back to my daily allowance.

(Alec) #28

No, not “zero carb religiously” as pretty much everything (including meat and eggs and dairy) does have some carbs in it. I also (shock horror) eat some condiments and sauces that have some carbs… but very small quantities, and therefore really no big deal.

Calories, I would have no idea, and I do not measure such useless data. “Calories” are a measure of heat energy created when you burn something in a calorimeter. Completely useless measure as we do not burn our food, we process it chemically… completely different processes and outcomes.

(Rhys) #29

I have done bouts of carnivore with a lot of keto in between and as my insulin resistance has gotten better the less reactive I am to carby foods. I was just in hospital for 6 weeks due to a heart infection and valve replacement so I was on hospital food which was all carbs and low fat for that whole time. My blood sugar was stable and my HbA1c was absolutely fine after. The impact of the years of low sugar is an ability to manage sugar again. Now I don’t like how I feel on sugar, but if I have to I can manage eating it and be absolutely ok, I am not more sensitive to carbs, I can handle them.

(Geoffrey) #30

That’s very interesting. I’ve thought that the next time I’m hospitalized, and I’m sure it’ll happen, I’ve considered how I would handle the food. In the past they’ve given me a “heart healthy diet”. I have pretty much decided that I would just refuse their food and have my wife bring me some real food. Your testimony is encouraging in that maybe I wouldn’t need to go to such measures for a short stay.

(Alec) #31

My plan if I ever find myself in this situation is explain I am allergic to plants. They would never risk feeding me plants… too easy to land a very large lawsuit.


It’s individual, no way I would eat low-fat food even for a day and I would suffer from the lack of high-protein and the presence of high-carb as well. It’s very trivial for me to get proper food instead of the hospital care. It’s not like it’s a bother but it helps immensely.
My poor SO hadn’t that option after his accident as it was in the early Covid times so no visitation but he ate so very little it wasn’t a problem. He needs HCHF, well hospital food is probably that. I know most about Hungarian hospital food and a single Australian hospital, they are nothing alike except the high-carb part.

So it depends on a hospital and the one in question (and the reason for hospitalization) if a hospital stay can be pulled off without much extra suffering due to the wrong food but it’s good to be prepared. Unless you know your hospital will be fine. There are some great hospitals food wise according to the photos I saw online…
I most probably would need my own food in Australia (in the single hospital I know about, at least. extreme high-cal as far as I could tell from the photos from a friend but if I take out the sugary treats -it’s a huge percentage - and the bread, not enough remains) and in Hungary (lowish-cal but works for quite many sick people, apparently. very simple and cheap therefore it’s carby and somewhat fatty and the protein is lowish as that is the most expensive macronutrient. the lunch is mostly vegs and grains). I may be fine in the 1st world European countries for a short stay.

It’s different in Hungary. Anyway, they just would take out the plants and you would end up 50g very low-level cheese (like the overprocessed mixed soft thingie, IDK the English term for it) and a similar amount of meat.
I heard about people with lactose intolerance getting a slice of half-dry bread for breakfast and dinner (as it’s almost always some bread and cheese here. very little). Hungarian hospital food is infamously bad, at least sometimes. Lunches are better, veggie soup and veggies/potatoes/grain with a bite of meat. At least you don’t get cake, that would be too expensive.
(Many people are pleased with their hospital food but many people aren’t. They are always cheap and usually not much but the quality still varies, it’s not the same everywhere.)

I deleted a lot but hospital food is such a fav topic of mine…

(Allie) #33

An often overlooked but extremely valuable resource.

(KM) #34

“Government Cheese?” :rofl: Actually, how apt, we call it “American Cheese”. Like orange rubber “food” is something to be proud of.


That is one kind but I thought about spreadable cheese, I googled and it seems that’s a good enough term for it? And the two together are “processed cheeses”.
The spreadable one comes in tiny triangles or a tube? Thick sausage shape?
IDK about other countries but it’s a huge thing here. I ate it a lot as a kid. I don’t touch it now, I eat proper cheese, the thing isn’t even cheaper than proper cheese. At least the popular brands aren’t (by the way, it’s recent but the fanciest, still nothing special margarine brand here managed to make an item significantly more expensive than butter. it needs to call itself butter flavored for that and it did it before but it always was cheaper. not anymore. maybe there are enough vegans and very much lactose intolerants for a higher price? I don’t know). And it has a lot of cheese (no idea how much though) but it’s still not proper cheese.

Once they made one in chocolate flavor… Some kids loved it, some hated it. I firmly belonged to the second group. It was horrid.

(KM) #36

Chocolate processed cheese. There’s a thought. Ergh.


A novel (and very bad IMO) idea - but still better than facing “vegan scratchings”. It is a thing, I just learned that fact some days ago… Not very surprising but STILL… I still process it.
Oh and cheese vs vegan things. I accidentally bumped into data about a vegan non-cheese spread and then I looked up the “normal” vegan non-cheeses. ZERO protein for both (0.0g in 100g). What. I had no idea about that. How do they think it is a good idea to replace a more or less protein rich thing with a zero protein one. And what did they use that it is zero, if I eat any plants and not some fruit or nothingness like cucumber, it won’t be near zero… I hope they sometimes eat some protein too (well if they put the thing on some normal bread, the bread will contain zillion times and a bit more protein as zillion multiplied with zero is zero).

But this would suit some thread about protein.

(Geoffrey) #38

That’s a good idea. :+1: