Keto till Dinner, Low Carb for Dinner - Thoughts?

(Allie) #21

There just isn’t though Liam… the technology just doesn’t exist. The only guide is your own body.

#22

I would echo Allie’s comments about how you feel; if you can get in tune with yourself you will recognize it easily. You will likely notice you get kicked out of ketosis, when you do carbs.

For a more objective response. I lost weight and reached goal weight in about 8 weeks. During that time I measured my BS and Ketones (blood) frequently. I was a bit confused and frustrated; because- although I was ketoti- I thought my ketones (0.1- 0.5) were kinda low and my blood sugars were mostly 90’s(better than before starting-but I was hoping they would be lower).

It was at that time I added some mild exercise and started skipping lunch. It was only a few days later I noticed my BS were lower and my ketones spiked (well above 1.0 and several initially like 3+) Getting to the point- I also noticed that I “felt great”. This better feeling- seemed to me to correlate with my better numbers. By continuing this eating and exercising pattern my ketone levels remain above the 0.5 nutritional ketosis level- So I feel like I am probably now “adapted”.

I’m not an expert- so take it for what it’s worth; but that was my experience and just trying to offer some help. If something ive posted here is out of wack- I would love to hear about it.

Thanks and good luck! :grinning:

(Liam) #23

THANK YOU, this is super helpful, I, of course, want this “great” feeling but having some numbers to back it up definitely would be validating etc…

(Brian) #24

You need to either eat keto or don’t. Being on the fence is not a good thing. Protein and sugar are a bad combination. High fat and high carb is a bad combination. Ya needs to pick a way of eating that works, not just a little from here and a little from there. “Moderation in everything” can get you in trouble.

(Liam) #25

Yep I agree

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #26

The recommendation I’ve seen is 0.8 to 1.5 g / kg of lean body mass.

@Liam Too much or too little protein is equally problematic for the body, so try to stay in the recommended range.

As for carbohydrate, Dr. Phinney appears to feel that it is possible to enter nutritional ketosis by eating less than 100-125 g of carbohydrate, but the people drawn to these forums tend to have metabolic problems that make eating less than 20 g a better option, especially at first. (Note that this is net carbohydrate, exclusive of indigestible fiber). It’s better to start low, because then you can be virtually certain of entering ketosis. (You can always go zero-carb if necessary.) Once you become ketotic, then you can gradually increase the amount of carbohydrate to see how much you can tolerate and remain ketotic.

The key, as Dr. Phinney explains, is to replace carbs in the diet with fat, eating fat to the point of satiety and not worrying about your calorie level. Most people’s lipid profiles improve once they become ketotic. While some people will see their LDL and triglycerides go up, there is usually a compensatory increase in HDL as well. At the moment your ratio of triglycerides to HDL is around 6, which is three times higher than recommended; you want a trig/HDL ratio that is under 2.0. Instead of eating less fat and more carb, try it the other way around, and I’ll bet that whatever your trig level does, your trig/HDL ratio will improve greatly.

The real numbers to be concerned with, from what I’ve been learning lately, are the level of small, dense LDL particles and the trig/HDL ratio. High HDL has a noticeable protective effect against heart disease, so that combined with your great calcium score would really turn things around for you. (I should admit, however, that I am still a novice at this way of eating, so if one of the experts here contradicts this post, go with what they say, okay?)

(Angela Alves) #27

How long does it take to get keto adapted?

(Allie) #28

Depends on many variables. For some, weeks, for others, months.

(Liam) #29

awesome thanks!!! how can I track this? “you can gradually increase the amount of carbohydrate to see how much you can tolerate and remain ketotic” I assume it would be to measure post meal glucose readings and ketone levels? and if so, what parameters do I want these numbers to stay within?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #30

Do several days of readings at the time of the meal and then at intervals after, to get a baseline of your usual pattern in ketosis. If you then increase your carbohydrate and the same pattern occurs, you know that level is safe. If you see a spike, then the previous level is your max.

(h_stepper) #31

Have you listened to any of the 2ketodudes podcasts? You might get a lot of tour questions answered there. They are so informative!

(Liam) #32

hi, where can i read more about this low carb purgatory, not coming up with much via google

(Sondra Rose) #33

Here you go:

(Liam) #34

WOW THANKS, that was very interesting, it seemed to apply more for athletes tho, was hoping for something geared more towards the average guy like me lol :slight_smile:

(Allie) #35

Basically it’s when you’re not eating enough carbs to be a sugar burner, but too many carbs to be a fat burner which means your stuck in limbo and feel like :poop:

(Liam) #36

All this time someone could have summed it up like this for me? :slight_smile: the other thing frustrating about the article is she talked so much about measuring Ketone levels but never said what levels to look for unless I missed it? And along these lines the too much too little carb thing, is there any way to quantify this? Or basically depends on the individual?

(Allie) #37

It is an individual thing, blood testing is a very helpful tool, and careful tracking if you’re struggling.

(Liam) #38

well, I really am struggling actually, just have like ZERO energy, and I really suspect I am in that zone you describe, is there any way I can figure that out tracking ketone and glucose levels or something? kind of not sure what to do

(Edith) #39

First, really make sure your carbs are low. Then, the best way to track is using blood glucose and ketones. The Precision Xtra blood glucose monitor does both blood glucose and ketones but the ketone test strips are pretty expensive. It may be worth the investment to get the monitor and test your ketones for a month. That will let you know if you are in nutritional ketosis and what levels of carbs and protein work for you.

I think in general, you are probably guaranteed to get into nutritional ketosis with 20g of total carbs. Anything above that, especially if you are insulin resistant, may not give you the results you are looking for.

Edith

(Liam) #40

Thanks :slight_smile: I have the meter, what minimum Ketone level do you think I should be seeing to know it’s working? After my 5-day fast a few weeks ago I continue to have very very few carbs in my ketones were at .2 which was a bit disappointing, I think I wasn’t having enough fat and too much protein or something