Keto rash getting worse

#21

@Paulene Oh so now we are back on the B2 angle again? I really dont know. But I might ask the dermatologist to check mine too. Maybe it is about peeing too much B2 out? Because I eat a lot of B2 foods too besides all the multivitamin pills I take.
Now I am going to bed - waiting for miracles tomorrow morning too? Bye!!!

#22

Ouch! I had a persistent armpit rash (on one side) pretty much during my first 9 months keto, and it would sometimes be more severe than other times.

Topical ACV relieved itchiness some, and I also dusted with corn starch or arrowroot. But it took a long time to pass, and I understood it as a sign of liver detox as my nutrient density was really good.

I should have worked with Aloe Vera, that would’ve been excellent - but didn’t at the time. I also tried raw honey, but it was of course very sticky/messy and didn’t do anything dramatic besides comfort my soul :blush:

Interestingly, I started to notice the rash would retreat everytime I hit around 40-50 carbs - which I intentionally experimented with - things like berries, yogurt, abundant veg including higher carb veg, an apple or two a week plus the carbs from chocolate and wine.

I studied up on the LCHF/keto phases from the Eades, Atkins, Phinney & Volek etc (they all want folks to phase up if possible, so that they can know their personal range etc). I learned that for the vast majority of folks who are 100% fat-adapted and well established in the keto way of eating, aiming to have higher levels of carbs not only helps longterm sustainability for many food cultures - it’s also less stressful to glandular systems as they continue to adapt and strengthen, as it sends rashes away.

(Paulene ) #23

My intent is to phase up to higher carbs as well…but I would like to knock off 20kg first. :smile: That would be just over half my desired weight loss. The first 10kg are gone, so at least I’m on the way.

(Bunny) #24

I got that keto rash for a long time on my hands and arms almost as bad as the picture (but I felt really good and had lots and lots of energy almost euphoric) but I absolutely refused to eat more carbs. I’m real stubborn like that…lol

Using the nutritional yeast and brewers yeast both (non-fortified) cleared it up fast, when I mixed them both together and put them in gel caps and kept taking them and being aware how much I was peeing. That combo has an endless list of vitamins and yeast will not effect your keto at all, together they are also a good tool to use before fasting or while fasting if your fasting longer amounts of time.

The keto rash might come from not eating enough grains or breads (but then you would not be keto?) or stuff you would eat on a SAD diet, so that is how I bypass that little formality with the nutritional yeast and brewers yeast?

Strangely enough my local health food store started stocking the non-fortified brewers yeast on the shelf at the time of my keto rash and I was like really happy about that because you can make it your self by killing it with heat and saved me trouble. It was $30.00 plus tax for a can of it, I was like you got to be joking! When you kill the yeast with heat it makes lots of different natural vitamins not man made vitamins.

When it’s fortified with man made vitamins it’s like trying to push big giant rocks through a fine strainer in micron particulate size and never enters the cells so it just passes through you and you just pee it out. That’s where the ACV comes in handy with berries.

#25

Good morning everybody!
Keep asking myself if this is wishful thinking or not, but after treating myself with ACV last night and drinking a LOT of ACV too, I have the feeling the itching has lessened. It is still there, but not as vehement. I am going to continue today and see how it goes. I was really becoming miserable with the rash. I am going to take an ACV BATH this morning.
I too have the goal of adjusting my carbs when I get to maintenance. But I have quite a few kilos to lose before then.
PS I think the yeast would speak for a B2 problem - if I remember correctly, yeast is full of B vitamin ( but i don’t remember which ones).

(Bunny) #26

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#27

@atomicspacebunny
Thx but it just seems kind of contradictory to me to say it is caused by yeast in the gut and then to eat it! LOL
Bottom line seems to be that nobody knows what causes it. Thats worrisome. So it is trial and error.

(Bunny) #28

That”s why I kill the yeast (even the fortified stuff) by toasting it in a pan or cookie sheet. Until it’s nice and lightly brown.

I want the vitamins that are in the yeast, not the yeast.

I’m a hunter and kill poor little yeasts…lol

Yeasts cannot live without vitamins so if they are not around to eat it, l will eat it. Nothing can live with-out vitamins (essential nutrients) including us, especially the water soluble vitamins?

If toxins build up in the body (liver, gut ect.) how do you get rid of them? Vitamins?

There are around 25 or more B-(family) Vitamins most of which science knows nothing about and they are in that yeast. They all work together synergistically? The scientists around the world have an entire database devoted to yeast on the internet and are constantly entering and contrasting information on yeast due to its complexity under the microscope. If we expose the yeast to X then Y happens?

Vitamins and minerals In Chia Seeds and Wheat Grass powder (these are not even an entire complete list) and thank gawd for phytates or phytic acid which keep you from over-absorbing essential nutrients, trace elements and minerals. When animals eat living plants you get the same in the meat.

Chia Seeds:

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Wheat Grass Powder:

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#29

Update: The ACV seems to be working. I still itch but much less. And where I have been putting the ACV, at first it burns and later instead of itching, I get a prickly feeling. Strange but much more comfortable than the constant itching. At any rate, my situation has become much more bearable. I will keep drinking ACV and using it on my skin, and wait to see if I still need that dermatologist appointment next week.

#30

P.S. - Just to clarify - for the 100% fat-adapted and non-IR - the whole foods carb increases (NOT via grains) happen as part of OWL (ongoing weight loss) and pre-maintenance - NOT just maintenance. As laid out in the Atkins/Phinney/Volek/Westman/Eades phases (Eades being most generous w/ carbs).

It’s an individual testing situation, of10g addition at a time etc. In fact, for females in this group, it may enhance functional physiology due to antioxidant actions/reduction of acidification which midlife and older females are prone to depending on various factors.

Also - very impt to keep in mind that re-mineralization of the body involves healthy weight gain due to bones/muscle mass improvements (some 15-20 pounds is possible according to the work of Weston A. Price) along w/ microbiome weight increases (a healthy gut has 6-8 pounds of good bacteria, not the typical 2-3 pounds). And, my hunch is that the bit of water weight gain from OWL and pre-maintenance carb levels is conducive for all the change and electrolytic processes?

When this happening along with slow fat loss it can seem like not much is happening - but I’ve found it very helpful to validate the importance and power of the above for overall longevity. IMHO, a well-established LCHF/keto body is going to be a denser and heavier body than a SAD emaciated body etc.

I’m a tall 185-190lbs these days, with the same or better measurements (but w/ a bit of a menopot) as when I was 145-150. Pretty wild!

Apparently 40lbs has gone into my bones, muscles, gut, and connective tissues (which are a bodywide network, not isolated). This mineralized, nutrient dense healthy weight is a heckuva a lot of gravitas for living a life. So, even for a shorter gal, there could well be some 20-40 pounds that is all about health recovery. It’s quite a mental adjustment though - as bodyweight charts and expectations for clothes models are geared more towards the starved or drug-addicted body mass.

#31

@SlowBurnMary
Thank you Mary. But you are WAY ahead of me. I am a beginner and just started to lose some weight. I am a long way from reaching my weight goal. So this is all kind of over my head. I am taking it all in one step at a time.

#32

You’re welcome - I started the phasing up around month 6 fwiw - and rash didn’t abate till I was around 40-50g many days a week. I’ve also got a liver support protocol now, using a dandelion-chicory root blend drink and living clay mineral baths & internally for continued detox help and lymphatic/water weight flushing.

#33

@SlowBurnMary
I don’t think I want to be that high maintenance in the end! Hopefully the keto rash will subside. If not then I will use cortisone, like Paulene.

(Paulene ) #34

@SlowBurnMary, did you decrease fats and/or increase exercise as you increased carbs?
I might have to start increasing as I’m now getting more rash over my trunk area, even while using cortisol ointment on my legs.

#35

@Paulene
Oh no!!! I have it all over. My thighs itch now too. I was hoping cortisone might make it go away too, because although it is more bearable with ACV, it is still there.

Addendum: OK so I do get some relief by scratching first and then putting ACV on the skin. It burns and prickles but that is still a great relief from the itching, and then I put the black seed oil on it when the vinegar has evaporated. It doesnt solve the problem, methinks, but it makes the itch go away for a few hours, and somehow lessens it in all. But then i get new lesions in new places and those itch again too.
And next week I have the appointment with the dermatologist. I HOPE he knows more, because with what I know now, I might get into an argument with him. Why use cortisone if it doesn’t really help? And dermatologists always prescribe cortisone for lack of answers. And I am not saying that dermatologists are inept. But there are just so many skin diseases that have no explanation for the cause. As far as i can tell, the keto rash is still a mystery for science.
Addendum 2: I also ate the raspberries with some cream. My carb count for today is at 23. So I am doing what Megan Ramos said- upping the carbs a bit (hopefully i will only stall and not gain what I have lost) and then slowly reduce that cup to a half a cup to none and get my carbs below 20 again. Theyalso say losing the carbs more slowly is less of a shock to the body and could hinder the rash. But who knows? So much speculation out there. Oh and I am still doing IF along the way. Some days 16/8 and other 18/6

(Elian) #36

I would advise great caution on using ACV directly on skin lesions, as relieving as it may seem. On a healthy skin barrier I guess it can’t do much damage especially if diluted, but rashes mean your outermost lipid layer is completely stripped and ACV will do more harm than good on the now vulnerable skin layers beneath which were never meant to deal with such an acidic pH.

It’s not the vinegar itself that relieves your itch, but the moisture in the towel. You have no protective lipid barrier, therefore losing water from the layers of your skin, which is causing the skin to flake and itch. Cortisone is no long term solution either. If it’s a chronic affliction, the minute you drop the cortisone, your symptoms will come back tenfold. Try some unscented, alcohol-free ointment formulated with petroleum jelly like Vaseline, see if that helps until you see a dermatologist. Also, Manuka honey has been scientifically approved for soothing rashes and burns, but it might be quite heavy on your pockets.

Word of advice on dermatologists, although some of them are great they’re not schooled to see skin in relation to other organs and systems in the body, when most times skin issues are merely a symptom of an underlying issue or deficiency. That said, you might want to get your levels of Vitamin D checked, might turn out you’re severely deficient and it’s not a keto rash after all.

Also, to answer your initial question, if you ingest black seed oil you’ll mainly reap its antioxidant properties (just like if you ate a bunch of blueberries). For its anti-inflammatory properties it’s best you apply it in an oil form directly to your skin. This way you get both the phytochemicals and the oil which will mimic your lipid layer and trap moisture in the damaged layers of your skin.

All the best to you and hope you get better soon!

#37

@Elian Thank you for your reply. I actually am using the black seed oil topically not orally - and it feels good on my skin! I use it after the ACV so maybe I instinctively knew to counterbalance the ACV burn, and also for its anti-inflammatory benefits. So I am using both recommendations together, so to speak. I also am wary of cortisone. Dont want to use it- especially since it is absorbed by the skin and goes into the bloodstream. And I have the rash ALL over. This is no joke and I am getting quite miserable. So using cortisone really doesnt seem like an option when it is so wide spread. So finally and in addition to the rest, I am upping the carbs a bit- albeit with gnashed teeth. I dont want to go over 25 though, and I have yet to check the scale. This is such a bummer because I was so elated to have found keto and at the simplicity and ease of it all. Now this! My body is literally covered with little red welts. Not so much scaley ( although I have a bit of those too) but more looking like mosquito bites or tiny oval welts. It really is appalling. I even had 2 between my eyebrows. If I end up looking like a leper, then I might have reached my tolerance level.

(Elian) #38

Hey, it won’t be the end of the world if you increase your carb count to see if it gets better. Keto is always going to be here waiting for you and it’s best you begin this journey in a good mental place.

I remember I contracted chickenpox the very first month I started keto. The blisters and the itchiness made my life a living nightmare and it made it that much harder to stick to the keto diet.

So hang in there and get better. We’re all going to be looking forward to your updates. :smiley:

#39

@Elian
Are you sure it was the chicken pox??? Chicken pox itch too - just like keto rash

(Elian) #40

Yes, it was most definitely the pox. Blood tested positive for the varicella-zoster virus so I fought through it with Quercetin, Bromelain, Vitamin C and periodical baths in baking soda + tea tree oil to calm the itch.