Keto and Fueling for Exercise


#21

I can’t remember what podcast I heard it on, but the speaker suggested drinking some very salty broth/ bouillon about 2 hours before exercise to help increase blood plasma volume. I don’t know if that is what is does, but it has made a world of difference to my workouts, especially when it’s hot out. This is on top of my already generous salting of my food.


#22

Fat adapted many hours long exercise is something I am very interested in. There are some folks on the site (Ianrobo) who have worked themselves into keto shape to take on many hours of moderate to intense work. For me, I will be starting slowly this season doing 20 and 30 mile bike rides and build up to 60-100 mile rides. My thought is to load up with salty drink prior to leaving and making sure I keep up with the intake of electrolytes and a lot of salt every 20 miles. I have a lot of experience with non-fat adapted long rides. It will be interested to see if I can go carbless this year. It is very hilly here and there is no way for me to not spend time with my heart rate at 85-90% of max.


(ianrobo) #23

as to electrolytes thanks to the advice I got from Steve Phinney and posted on the B site I simply increased my salt intake in foods during the day. During rides electrolyte tabs are the only thing I do more but I have noticed on Keto/fat adapted I sweat far less, maybe @richard can explain that as I am sure it is not weight related


(d99613ad0156fba4c7cc) #24

Woke up this morning and took an electrolyte capsule, salted my water and went to an hour long strength training session at my gym. No weird neurological symptoms but when i was done all I wanted was to eat something and was super tired. Ate two hard boiled eggs chopped up with some mayo and slept for two hours. Still tired when I woke up. Preworkout blood sugar was 91 and post was 80 so it’s still dropping. Any advice? I have a mountain bike ride tomorrow with friends and I’m worried I won’t make it. I plan only 10 miles.


#25

How long have you been doing keto? If you haven’t been doing it for very long, I’d guess that you’re not fat adapted yet and that perhaps your body is wanting to refuel with carbs. My only advice is to stick with it; it gets better - dramatically better - over time.


(ianrobo) #26

That’s it Jevin you have to do pain to get to the promised land. My advice is do the ride, suffer but remeber how you felt and compare in say 2/3 weeks time


(Greg Borchert) #27

It takes time. I’m almost four months into keto and am just now starting to see improved power on threshold level outputs. I am confident that this will continue to improve over time. Yesterday while fasting I did an hour and a half all out strength training gym workout and then rode my bike for an hour and a half trying to push as hard as I could. I maybe didn’t have quite as much energy at the end that I would have had eating gels as in the past, but I felt good and finished strong. Fat adaptation improves over time.


(d99613ad0156fba4c7cc) #28

It’s been 24 days. I will stick with it. Thanks! Had a mentally and physically tough day today. Other than the extreme tiredness and some nausea I feel great. It’s definitely worth the effort.


(ianrobo) #29

totally worth the effort and a change in diet and training regime can not take place without some ‘pain’


(d99613ad0156fba4c7cc) #30

Suffered through the climbs today. Once my heart rate leveled out I felt better than I usually do on a ride. Ate breakfast, then bacon and electrolytes pre and during the workout. Glad I experimented because I don’t think I would have finished the ride in a fasted state yet.


(ianrobo) #31

thats fine as it is all incremental increase.

To note I did a real fast 75km ride today - NP was 233 W and HR was 153 and the key thing here was the HR … this is because even say on all out efforts the more that can be services from the aerobic base the better …


(ianrobo) #32

oh of course fasted


(lisa Bradley) #33

I found your process interesting. I am six weeks in and, while I am in ketosis, I think I am not yet fat adapted. I’ve lost very little weight (none actually!), but I am seeing some benefits… incredible sleeps for a start. I’m body fatigued and tired some days, but have noticeable increased energy lifting weights and in my spin classes. I think it will just take a little longer for me to reach the fat adapted holy grail. I am happy to see how it goes for another couple of weeks at least. Importantly, I’ve just made a huge mindset change as well. I don’t see this process as cutting carbs but upping fats. A couple of weeks back I was buying expensive products to make keto-friendly carb foods and now I am buying all measure of fats to make fat bombs. Tonight’s dinner was zoodles with loadsa butter, parmesan and spinach with a handful of prawns followed by a lemon cheesecake fat bomb. I would never have thought this food could be so good.


(Greg Borchert) #34

Lisa. My approach to keto is based on Mark Sisson and Brad Kearns approach, known as the 21 Day Keto Reset. The book is inexpensive on Amazon. I did an online course through them known as the Keto Reset Mastery Course. There are tweaks to this thing for sure, and I think knowledge is power.
I think I am fortunate in that I don’t have much of a sweet tooth. I am fine with maybe a third of a big bar of some 90% dark chocolate. That’s like 7 grams net carbs and my treat some days. Also, I eat a lot of vegetables, which can be filing without a lot of calories. Dr. Stephen Phinney, who coined the phrases keto and fat adapted, and has been prescribing this diet to patients for forty years says three to five servings of green vegetables per day. I’m also a little bigger on protein, and have never given up the protein smoothie I have been doing in one form or another for decades. I know all the stuff about gluconeogenesis and that protein in excess can also be a insulin stimulus, but those are not issues for me. I shoot for .7 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass, that’s total weight minus fat. I am down to 12.7% bodyfat.
Clearly we all do metabolize things a bit differently.
Your results in the gym and on a spin bike are great. I would encourage you to keep at it! Also, magnesium. I was having some lower leg cramps. Thought it was sodium or potassium shortage. Turned out it was magnesium shortage. I started supplementing 400 to 800 mg magnesium citrate each day and the cramps disappeared.
Best wishes for success.


(lisa Bradley) #35

Thanks for this. Just about to watch the magic pill to further my fervour for keto! Will look into the reset book too.


(ianrobo) #36

now cramps is an excellent debate. I certainly think Salt and other items are important and I take this in a tablet when riding. However I was told that cramps just need to be stretched, so a ride a few weeks ago fo this on inner thigh, stretched and no more issues …

In truth few people know the real cause of them


(Bob Williams) #37

Are the cramps you refer to, were they when riding or during sleep?

I found that when I was a “sugar burner” ie, pre-keto I might get nasty cramps during or after a long high intensity ride. More water and electrolytes took care of them. But once in ketosis I started to experience night cramps on my calves and feet. It took a lot of experimenting with sodium and different types and amount of magnesium to get what worked in my case. (Magnesium Malate) It was a time consuming and frustrating experience and highlights how many keto issues are on a person by person basis.


(Greg Borchert) #38

I think it does take some experimentation. I was waking up with fairly severe cramps in the calf area, both legs, especially after exercise. That wasn’t entirely foreign as I had experienced that also as a sugar burner, but that cramping was resolved by stretching. Stretches didn’t get rid of these cramps for me. But, magnesium did. I think any digestible form is fine. Mag citrate seems to work well for me, and it’s what I had on hand. But, I have also had to be attentive to sodium, potassium and zinc. One thing that sticks with me from Stephen Phinney about minerals on a ketogenic diet is that it’s a daily thing. There is little carryover from the prior day. So, you can’t think that I had sodium yesterday so I don’t need it today. It’s a daily requirement.


(Greg Borchert) #39

The other thing I wanted to mention is vegetables. Specifically green lower carb vegetables. Before the dawn of agriculture, how did our ancient Homo Sapiens ketogenic ancestors get their minerals? I’d guess mostly from plants. Phytonutrients of various sorts, including minerals.
My guess is that most people on a ketogenic diet don’t prioritize vegetables, but we need to. Three to five servings of vegetables a day might make a big difference in our mineral absorption.


(Edith) #40

I think our non agricultural ancestors ate/used more bones than we do today. I would also imagine if they ate insects, many minerals would have come from eating the exoskeletons. Just a guess.