Just read Keto Diet Exposed by Jay Thompson- now confused

(Tiffany Robinson) #1

I’ve just listened to the audio book by Jay Thompson which basically contradicts what I’ve heard re the benefits of Keto so now I’m confused. It sounds very uninformed but he does mention upto date studies (some not even on mice!) The book isn’t convincing in my opinion but how can people publish stuff if it isn’t true? Needing reassurance! Thank you

Keto and Noom
(Joey) #2

@Tiffany_Robinson Welcome to the forum!

Never heard of this author so I can’t directly address his studies or whatever support he cites for what he’s preaching. But I’d be interested in knowing what tell-tale signs lead you to believe he’s unconvincing and that what he’s saying isn’t true?

FWIW, the idea that there are folks out there who are publishing things that are neither convincing nor true shouldn’t be overly surprising. Explaining why I believe this happens so regularly would make me sound more cynical about the world than I usually care to be. :zipper_mouth_face:

#3

For me evidence is my results. I’ve been on Keto for almost 6 months. I’ve lost 65 lbs. I’ve lowered my HbA1c by over 2 points. Most of my metabolic measures are now in normal range. No medication.

I felt my A1c levels were not falling as fast as I wanted so asked the doctor for Metformin. He said that for the next three months he would prefer me to stay on course. He was impressed by my results but he still doesn’t support Keto or intermittent fasting. Go figure.

(Joey) #4

Wow. All I can say is … wow!

Hearty congratulations on changing your health profile so dramatically in well under a year. I imagine you’re also feeling like a much younger, energetic version of “you,” too?

#5

Everybody’s entitled to their opinion. There is plenty to show keto isn’t healthy… and it’s not in the context they typically put it in. That’s why science is great, but it’s flawed by the person/people doing it.

I always observe science, but will over ride it with real life. “Science” said eggs and avacados would clog our arteries and kill us, now the science say they’re superfoods. Wait for the wind to change direction and so will science.

(Alec) #6

What does it say that concerns you? Easier to address specific concerns.
Cheers
Alec

#7

Can’t quantify it but I feel so much younger. I also feel so much more sure footed. Imagine walking with a 65lb pack on your back and then you get to take it off.

(Alec) #8

One key point to understand here. The collected knowledge and wisdom about the keto diet on these forums is infinitely larger than this one man and his experience and learning on keto. He’s been on keto for a few years. Aggregate the wisdom and varied experience of people on these forums and you are talking thousands of years of wisdom, learning and experience.

I know which of these I am going to trust.
Cheers
Alec

#9

Very easily… I’ve read a book claiming that people with diabetes must eat tons of carbs… Not just the usual 150-160g a day… I’ve read an anti-vacc book too. And so on. People are free and while there are rules, it has little about truth.

I am not confused about keto in general, thankfully.
First of all, I experiment on myself, I am interested in the effect of my own style of keto on my individual body, not really experiments with low N and especially not mice fed some low-quality stuff. I listen to other people’s experiences as I get a higher N there and anyway, it’s interesting. So many people tell their stories and it means something even if they aren’t me and my diet isn’t their diet. And… Yep, some science is pretty nice too, we do know some facts if we search a lot for answers. Other things aren’t nearly that certain… So I focus on my own body, it’s pretty communicative and tells me what it likes. It’s the best I can do.
And I don’t really worry as that would harm my mental health and possibly my physical health too. I can’t make my lifestyle perfect, this world isn’t nearly good enough for that but my body is resilient so I do what I can and hope it can handle the wrong things.

If the audio book even sounds uninformed… I probably would dismiss it. Maybe it makes a point and there is food for thought but I wouldn’t believe something that can’t even dress what it wants to say in a believable way. Not like that would be enough for me.

It’s easy for me. Carbs mess with me. Clearly not the way to go and I doubt anything could change that. Unless my body changes and tells me yep, eat all the carbs, I feel awesome that way. It didn’t happen yet, I have my moments but those are short joyful visits, my body is firmly for very little carbs since I introduced it to that… And it wants less and less and things get better. It’s pretty hard to change my mind at this point. I am a hedonist, I eat to feel best… And I doubt I suddenly would get sick after nicer years… But it’s my life so take my risks anyway :wink:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

One thing to bear in mind is that studies of “low-carb” diets are usually far higher in carbohydrate than anything anyone eats around here.

Another thing is that there is an adaptation period of six to eight weeks required, before fatty-acid metabolism really gets up to speed, so no two-week study is going to capture the benefits of this way of eating.

You also have to look at the corporate affiliations of researchers who publish papers. The sugar industry, for example, has been known to pay researchers to badmouth fat and downplay the ill effects of sugar. Some of those researchers are still active in the field. Research from Loma Linda University tends to emphasise the dangers of eating meat and the virtues of eating plants—which is not surprising, because the university is run by the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, which started the vegan movement. And the statin industry has been known to play fast and loose with their data on cholesterol.

#11

For practically anyone at an unhealthy weight, losing weight is a good thing. Look up “the Twinkie Diet” - a dude lost 25 pounds eating vending machine food, lost weight, and his health markers improved. If you’ve already lost the weight, improved your markers, and are thinking about what is “optimal maintenance” I feel like nobody has the answers. But if your new to Keto and having success, I’m pretty sure you are doing yourself a favor.

(Tiffany Robinson) #12

Thank you…I’m new to it and feeling great just wanted reassurance as also dragged hubby along for the ride and didn’t want to make him poorly!! Thanks again

(Mark Rhodes) #13

Don’t forget Paul when the use fats its often canola or soy as the do not want to use saturated fats as they are “unhealthy” while we in the keto community are the exact opposite.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

Another very good point. That fear of saturated fat just warps everything.

(Marianne) #15

Meaning your doctor. That’s me, too, and a lot of us here.

My doctor and cardiologist don’t support my keto WOE, either. I’m not even going to tell them that I have been carnivore for over a year. Not up for that rash of s*&^.

I think many of us have had the same experience as you with our doctors. I told my cardiologist that I’d rather trade high cholesterol (with favorable ratios!), for lower BP, metabolic syndrome, 75 lbs. lost and maintained over three years, pre-diabetes, high H1C, A-fib, inflammation and achy joints, etc. First time he hasn’t had a retort to that.

#16

:laughing::grimacing:

Years ago, I thought of becoming a vegan but I really like meat. Now, considering carnivore but really like vegetables. For me, a protein and non-starchy vegetable “diet” suits me. I dumped the processed foods and sugars. I’m not afraid of saturated fats. I find it easy, filling and enjoyable. I’m happy with my progress.

Truthfully, I don’t understand why doctors are so resistant to Keto. Is it the fat? He is also wary of intermittent fasting.

When my doctor first prescribed Metformin and I refused, he was concerned. Three months later when all my markers had improved, he no longer wants me to take the drug. I think I’m his Guinea pig.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

I believe it’s two concerns. The first is that doctors have often only heard of ketones as toxic waste products, and that in the context of diabetic ketoacidosis, a dangerous and often fatal condition that afflicts Type I diabetics who aren’t taking insulin.

The second is, as you suspect, the fear of fat, which still reverberates in our psyches ever since Ancel Keys proposed saturated fat intake as the cause of coronary heart disease seventy years ago. Even though it’s been shown that his Seven Countries study was fraudulently reported, and even though his Minnesota Coronary Study (among a number of large, well-funded studies) failed to support his diet-heart hypothesis, and even though plenty of other evidence exists to show that fat and/or cholesterol cannot possibly be the cause of cardiovascular disease, the faulty impression persists.

(Kirk Wolak) #18

I had this. Success changed some minds.

Also, I Love Dr. Ken Berry. In Boca, recently, he said “Doctors are just Chicks and Dudes!”
They might have a degree, but they need to stop acting like they already know everything.
This is VERY refreshing from an MD… He spelled it out… He said his book “Lies my doctor told me” was his apology for years of telling many of those very same lies…

for some reason, I trust the people who have had the same struggles I have had, and overcame them in similar ways to how I ended up overcoming them…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #19

There’s a big difference between “This is what I did; perhaps it will work for you, too,” and “This is what you must do.” People don’t generally respond well to know-it-alls.

(Kirk Wolak) #20

Not only that…
but every study out there points out the Individual Variability can produce HUGE results.
I will NEVER be as big as Shawn Baker. Yet we are the same age, both Male. Etc.

If I’ve learned anything, it’s that YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary), and Every Body Is Different.

And as much as I know… I am still learning. I’ve learned in the last 2 years that Emotional Stress (Bad news), and WORK Stress (hard programming), can both kick me out of ketosis!

I’ve also learned that High Ketones, and Lower glucose is really hard for me to do complex programming. My brain doesn’t work as well. (My brain is still glucose dependent, and I am SLOWLY making progress with it by cycling Metformin). But I feel like a human Lab Rat. LOL