Is Nutritional Ketosis helpful if you have a cold or seasonal hayfever allergies?

[Aqua_chonk]

My allergies and asthma are much better on keto, I have to say. At the moment, I am doing quite nicely on my daily antihistamine alone. Very rarely, I will need a hit or two of albuterol, if the pollen count gets really high.

@FrankoBear Since keto and carnivore are by nature lower in histamines and inflammatory foods, I should think that ketosis is by extension beneficial to the immune system simply by not stressing it. Point being, you got more strength to fight off cooties when you’re not wrestling with inflammatory responses like allergies, etc.

[PaulL]

if both a cold and a fever are the body’s response to viral infection, why would different treatments produce different results?

Because a fever is different from other symptoms, perhaps? If that’s not it, I have no idea.

For hayfever as noted above by @FrankoBear to @Fangs , it has to be locally grown honey not honey from Hawaii or so I have read. Not a big hayfever sufferer so no clue if it works

I can’t imagine honey helping to relieve hay fever. Certainly not in my case, because I am allergic to all the possible pollens the honey could be made from. I can see it possibly having an antibiotic effect that would help with a bacterial infection, but antibiotics don’t work on viral infections, of course.

[SomeGuy]

I can’t imagine honey helping to relieve hay fever. Certainly not in my case, because I am allergic to all the possible pollens the honey could be made from. I can see it possibly having an antibiotic effect that would help with a bacterial infection, but antibiotics don’t work on viral infections, of course.

Same. Can’t imagine why bee poop would be helpful in relieving hay fever.

[PaulL]

And that’s quite apart from the damage all that glucose and fructose would do.

[Saphire]

A quick search provides the reasoning although the Mayo Clinic does not seem in favor
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/allergies/expert-answers/honey-for-allergies/faq-20057927

Probably not. Honey has been anecdotally reported to lessen symptoms in people with seasonal allergies. But these results haven’t been consistently duplicated in clinical studies.

The idea isn’t so far-fetched, though. Honey has been studied as a cough suppressant and may have anti-inflammatory effects. In addition, some experts point out that honey can contain traces of flower pollen — an allergen. And one treatment for allergies is repeated exposure to small amounts of allergens

Certainly not in my case, because I am allergic to all the possible pollens the honey could be made from.

This is something you should discuss with your allergist as should anyone with allergies

[PaulL]

According to the entry for “honey” in the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food Data Central databese, honey is 17.1% water and 82.1% sugar (36.25% glucose, 41.35 % fructose, 1.44% maltose, and 3.1% galactose), plus a small amount of protein, vitamins, and minerals.

If we could filter out the sugars and just take the minerals, vitamins, and proteins, I’d consider it. But since we reject supplement pills that contain a small amount of dextrose or maltodextrin, I think it wise to reject something that is 82.1% sugar. My liver certainly does not need the fructose burden.

ETA: Has anyone seen how much honey is in a therapeutic dose? For example, 1 tablespoon (21 g) of honey would be 17.24 grams of sugar, which is nearly my entire carb allowance for the day.

[ctviggen]

I was speaking solely of using honey for colds, not for allergies. For me, keto has basically cured my allergies. Took 24 hour pills twice daily pre-keto, only a few per year while keto.

Not everyone gets the same benefit, though.

But Manuka honey is such an antibacterial that you can use it to brush your teeth. That’s how I was going to test it.

And, I’ve been testing some carbs on the days I do body weight training to failure, for at least the first meal after that. Was thinking of trying honey then too or as an alternative. Currently, trying winter squash, much of which does not seem to cause me issues.

Edit: Like this study of using manuka honey on your teeth:

The effects of manuka honey on plaque and gingivitis: a pilot study - PubMed

[FrankoBear]

A teaspoon is the more likely honey vehicle. The dose may be half a teaspoon once a day in the evening for two days. What carbohydrate dose is that in a week’s eating? Carbs come down to accounting.

And there is honey in general that is mass manufactured, processed and pasteurised glucose syrup (bad).

Then, like any other whole food, there is raw, local honey from different bee species and local hives. That’s the honey produced by the bees that are constantly in the local pollen that triggers the allergies.

Veterinarians have never diagnosed a bee with hay fever. We use animal models for human disease often as part of ancient and modern medicine.

[PaulL]

Doesn’t matter whether the bees are allergic to the pollen or not. I’m allergic to it, badly allergic, and that’s what I care about. So I don’t need the traces of pollen proteins. If the bees broke the proteins down to their constituent amino acids, it would be a different story.

Even though there’s not enough protein in 100 g of honey to really meet any of the body’s needs for protein, it’s enough in even a small quantity of honey to give me allergies. Granted, my allergies are a lot better on keto, but still. I don’t need to be exposing myself to allergens on purpose, when I already get enough exposure that I can’t prevent.

[Aqua_chonk]

honey is 17.1% water and 82.1% sugar (36.25% glucose, 41.35 % fructose, 1.44% maltose, and 3.1% galactose), plus a small amount of protein, vitamins, and minerals

It can also be a large percentage corn syrup. Nefarious beekeepers actually feed the bees processed sugar and corn syrup to cut costs. So, you are well to avoid it and your friends should stick to apiaries they trust.

[FrankoBear]

The tiny amount of pollen peptides in the raw, local honey are a form of allergen hyposensitization.
It’s a way to desensitise allergic reactions. We used it a lot in veterinary medicine to relieve grass and pollen allergies in patients with itchy skin.

Allergen immunotherapy

[Shinita]

Hungary has very many great beekeepers. I always bought very good, local honey as its taste was way superior.

As honey for colds and similar stuff is a very common medicine and I loved the taste, I tried it plenty of times when I was a kid. It never ever ever ever did anything at all.
I don’t care if it’s good for others, it does exactly NOTHING to help in my own case.

I had a time when I ate several kilograms of honey per year And way less sugar. I never understood how people eat that 800g sugar a week (once I have read that). Yeah, I can calculate it from various stuff but… But I ate very much. And sweets as the final part of my meals and not a small amount. And I wasn’t anywhere close to that. Okay, I didn’t drink sugary drinks (or that was homemade and I think I didn’t overdo sweetening even on high-carb ages ago), maybe that’s why.
(Eating over 300g carbs a day is odd to me as well. As I already epically overeat there. But I know it’s only because fat is my natural main macro on every diet/woe I can do.)

I never was particularly interested in experiments, at least beyond some basic interest at getting food for thought, they can’t often help me to make decisions about myself, that’s my own body’s job, it shows me what it likes though I needed to show you things it never experienced.
People are different, experiments are flawed… Honey won’t be good for me even if it magically becomes that for everyone else. I experimented enough, my final decision is done.

But onion soup very rarely failed me That is my cold medicine. Super effective in my case. I tried honey and then onion soup several times, even for the same cold if I could suffer for a while without my onion soup. Honey did nothing, every time. Onion soup worked in hours, like a charm, maybe it was only 90-95%, I don’t remember but not less.
Onion soup isn’t carnivore either but it’s not nearly as sugary and sweet and I am no carnivore anyway. I just like to stay very close most of the time. And I don’t need much onion for it, the rest can be fat, eggs, water and lots of vinegar, mmm. I loved that soup. I don’t eat it nowadays, onion is too sweet to me and only use it for stews but not in the usual onion/meat ratio, I need waaaaaaaaaaay less.

I am not against eating even high-carb if that helps with my once-per-decade cold but it just… Doesn’t. It only could make me more miserable if I overdid it. Even a little triggers tiny disagreeing nudges from my body. Nothing unpleasant, even a high-carb day needs some effort to trigger something noticeably negative but I do feel it’s not my way.

So nope, not honey. I can live without it despite it being one of the top tastiest things in the world and the best tasting sweetener (wide meaning, it makes things sweeter), hands down for me.
Can’t beat the tastiness of good pork chuck but nothing can beat that. Not like they are comparable but that never stopped me.

I have no allergies. But first of all, I am me.
I say absolutely nothing against anyone who use honey as medicine. But it is useless and even slightly bad for me. (Unless the enjoyment helps but I can eat something better with the same or more effect. Onion soup has vinegar and sour beats sweet in my case even if the sweet is honey… And warm sour liquid for a sore throat, that is amazing. Warm tea is nice too but it doesn’t help beyond the duration of drinking it and if I put anything in it, that’s lemon juice drops and definitely not honey. It’s not even good to use it in water I have heard.)

[FrankoBear]

Chris Masterjohn has an allergy protocol.

Can COVID Vaccines Exacerbate Seasonal Allergies?

From that post:

I believe my allergies are >90% gone now and that the protocol is working, and I will write it out for you tomorrow morning.

[Fangs]

remember too anyone who even cares to suck down honey as ‘some remedy’ or in any other form they see fit, go at it full on speed!!! nothing wrong with it if it suits you and do ok and live with what you want as a long term lifestyle to help you til the end to live great results.

honey on carnivore…my plan…is NO…so right off the bat I don’t care one bit about ‘what honey might or might not do for ME personally’ LOL

carnivore plan, my lifestyle is NO on sweet point blank so even if I feel that honey is some kind of miracle cure of anything, need real proof of truth first, nope, ain’t out there, then I need way more proof from myself that any sweet in my life ain’t gonna trigger a massive backslide into carb land, nope, ain’t got proof that ain’t gonna happen! and that is thru personal experience and then I require…well, nope being my personal eating plan, I DON’T require any sweet on it so…

remember this is all about how nutritional ketosis effects allergies and IS anything proven. Nope and ain’t gonna be any time soon that I can see on anyone bothering on a very tight pinpoint study on this.

OK just a chat on it cause we can debate honey til the cows come home, but in the end, eat the cow and dump the honey is probably the way to go!

[PaulL]

but in the end, eat the cow and dump the honey is probably the way to go!

Given that I’m a sugar addict, this certainly needs to be my approach!

[CaptainKirk]

First, I love that video.
For me, for decades… A Cold (sore/scratchy throat) was hit with a Mega Dose of Vitamin C.
This worked! I would do 4-8 GRAMS at once, and 1-2 grams/hr until I got loose stools. I would also force myself to get some rest.

As for listening to hunger cues… Back then, I was a carb junkie. I could eat my way through a cold, a fever, and ALMOST through food poisoning! [Okay, I could NOT eat during the projectile portions… But my wife was SHOCKED after I got “cleaned out”, and found me eating ice cream a couple of hours later. [In hindsight, I was so far from ketosis, I was probably starving]
(I felt empty… as in fuel tank empty).

Usually one day of mega-dosing Vitamin C and sleeping and I was good to go.

Now that I have been keto for years. I find it easier/better/natural to fast.
In Jan, I caught the “C” and it hit fast sat night. At 3am I was up taking an insane regimen because I knew what I had. Sunday was horrible muscle pain, and the sore throat was gone.
I was nasal washing 4x Daily with iodine in water, snorting it with a silicone straw, since I was plugged up so much a netti pot wasn’t working.

80% better on Monday. Kept the the high dose of stuff. And good to go by Tuesday (at 90-95%)

What is different now. Now I LISTEN to my body. SOMETIMES it wants to FAST and SLEEP.
So I do. Sometimes, it wants something light, or just bullion and hot water. I realize that eating ANYTHING helps to drain the sinuses into the stomach, and bolster the mucus lining in the gut.

I TRULY respect the role of REST… Even giving my digestion a rest. Now that I have energy while fasting.

Summary: I think the advice/experience changes as your body changes!

[FrankoBear]

I love the way you write and share your wisdom. Not just in this topic, but across the forum.

I TRULY respect the role of REST… Even giving my digestion a rest. Now that I have energy while fasting.

[Fangs]

yea I think applies to alot of us