Is it safe to have cheat days on keto?

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(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #41

Is it it safe ? Heck no ! It can make your arms fall off and your eyes pop out ! :grinning:

Okay seriously, I wouldn’t say, it wasn’t safe. I’d just say it’s completely pointless. And the only person you would be cheating, is yourself. Why not just eat something as a treat, which is still totally keto ?
I eat sweet treats every day, and often a desert with my dinner. There are all kinds of natural low carb sweeteners out there (if your worried about natural) or you can be a Sucralose freak like me :wink:

Also, I make and eat the most awesome yeast risen keto bread almost daily. So I don’t have to “cheat” with bread either.

Zucchini Au Gratin… Who needs potatoes ? Getting ready to try cauliflower rice (I hate cauliflower, but I hear this is awesome)

My point is their is just SO much great keto food out there, and even sweet keto treats, I see no reason to have a cheat day, or even a cheat meal.

Not to mention, coming from a completely personal standpoint, I feel like I can do keto for the rest of my life, no problem. But I don’t have a control dial. For me, one cheat day will absolutely turn into a cheat week, and then it’s all over.

I understand their are people who can cheat once in a while and then get right back on to keto. That’s good for them, but it still seems kind of pointless to me… And it certainly wouldn’t work for me.

(PJ) #42

The chicken fried rice version is the bomb. I love it.

I despise cauli. I can’t eat it in the ‘cheesy baked potatoes dish’ even. But I once made the fried rice cauli dish here:

http://www.lowcarb.ca/karen/recipe052.html

for highcarb friends at a dinner and they had no idea it wasn’t rice. I’m sure if we’d had rice it would have been obvious. They just didn’t question it. They were astounded! Then they ate theirs, the rest of mine, and all the leftovers.

(Joey) #43

Love it.

(Ian) #44

How exactly do people define a cheat meal or day?

Is it eating:
more than 1 g over 20g a day?
More than 50 g a day?
More than 100 g a day…

For example, I can eat a meal with a little more carb than normal, but it wont kick me out of ketosis. From self experimentation I know I can eat up to 60-80 g of carbs/day (depending on the type and degree of processing) and it wont kick me. Sure my ketones will go down from 1.2-1.6 to 0.4-0.6, but I am still in ketosis. If eat the same meal/foods for a second day then yes I will be out of ketosis, but typically only for a short 1-2 day period.

So if you have what you think of as a little bit of a cheat or “relaxation” in your carb intake I would not consider it a cheat unless it is sufficient to completely knock you out of ketosis. whether or not going out of ketosis for a short period of time is even harmful, as discussed above, I think the jury is still out on that particular issue.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #45

You’ve spent quite a bit of time and effort persuading your body to return to metabolising fatty acids and ketone bodies after years of metabolising glucose. So what might be a good reason for switching back? That would be my question. If the benefits of better health, retaining fingers and toes, mental clarity, lower insulin resistance, reduced cancer risk, and fat loss aren’t working for you, then by all means return to a carb-laden diet. But keto is like showering; it’s not a once-for-all event, but rather an ongoing process, and if you stop doing it, you stop getting the benefits. Unfair, I know, but that’s the way it is.

On the other hand, everyone’s carbohydrate tolerance is different, and our recommended limit of 20 g/day is intended to work for everyone but those people who are extremely insulin-resistant. So you might be able to increase your carbohydrate intake somewhat and remain in ketosis. Also, if you stick to real foods and continue to avoid processed foods, refined grains, and sugar, you will probably be fine. But if it’s sugar you want, or your favorite carb-laden snack food, and you return to eating them, you will probably regain the problems that prompted you to start eating a ketogenic diet in the first place.

There are people who legitimately consider the risk of cardiovascular disease or cancer or diabetes (including losing parts of their anatomy) to be worth it, so that they can eat Cinnabon or Dunkin’ Donuts, for example. Not a choice I would make, having experienced the benefits of a well-formulated ketogenic diet, but as a sugar/carbohydrate addict, I can certainly understand the pull. Crack addicts, heroin addicts, and alcoholics experience something similar when they try to get clean and sober, and there is always a percentage who feel that giving up their drug of choice is just not worth it.

#46

I’m an alcoholic. Keto is my way to get out of this hell. Cheating on friday with some beer made me feel more than bad. Out of ketosis- that I’m more than sure of. Just do not be judgemental- we all try getting to a better place. Thanks for thelinks to materials on cheating while keto. :blush:

(Jack Bennett) #47

Some of you may have heard of the “Abstainer vs Moderator” model from the writer Gretchen Rubin.

The idea is that abstainers do better with bright lines (e.g. no added sugar … EVER). Moderators do better with more flexible rules (e.g. I can have 200 calories of junk food every other day).

I think a lot of dietitians and nutritionists fit the moderator model: they can’t understand why many people do better on approaches like keto. (“But … you cant cut out an ENTIRE FOOD GROUP … just eat carbs in moderation.” Yeah, right … moderation is the first step down the path of eating the whole cake.)

All of this is to say, if your brain is wired as a moderator, then you’re probably ok with a cheat meal / day / weekend now and then. If you’re an abstainer, or have compulsive issues around high-carb food, it’s probably better to skip the cheat days.

Reference: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-happiness-project/201210/are-you-abstainer-or-moderator

(Nay) #48

This is interesting, this was more the kind of ‘cheat’ I was wandering about. I haven’t tested my ketone levels at all since starting this, so that’s interesting to know. Thanks :blush:

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #49

Jack, this is so true. And I’m an abstainer. I have no control dial. For me, it’s simply an on off switch. If I eat one maple bar, it will become how ever many I can eat until I die of health complications. I’m in this 100% and for life. Heaven forbid something should knock me out of Keto, even for 1 day, as that would be the end of it.

(Neil) #50

Oh my gosh, this! I’m exactly the same way. One small bite of ice cream turns into an entire container.

#51

^ This. (As I seem to have to remind myself repeatedly.)

#52

I’m an abstainer, all the way…
“In moderation” was never my cup of tea…

#53

The point of LCHF/keto is healing and optimizing metabolic agility. The Drs. Eades in their classic book Protein Power talk about the ideal state for metabolic power as being on the ‘keto cusp’ and being able to flex after the first few weeks/months of fat-adaptation. They started folks at 100g total/50g net and had a process whereby fat-adapted folks would increase their carbs 10g per week or something to see their new limits, etc. And Atkins has phases that proceed over a few weeks so as to make LCHF/keto a way of living that is easy and pleasurable to do. Add to that the enhanced metabolic state of slow intense weight lifting, and there’s even more flex.

It bears repeating though that there’s a huge difference between “cheating/bingeing” days on trash/processed foods and expanding one’s LCHF/keto flex with informed and disciplined self-experimentation with whole foods like sweet potatoes or carrots! Glucose and incretin can make huge insulin surges on junk food or feasting on carbs before protein, whereas if you eat protein first and then proceed to enjoy some non-processed or low-processed carbs, the insulin spike is distinctly less severe.

I’d suggest getting copies of the cornerstone LCHF/keto books and referencing them frequently as you go. Easy to read books like Protein Power (by the Drs. Eades, they have a new version publishing soon called Protein Power 2.0), The New Atkins For a New You (by Westman ,Phinney, Volek), and for females, The Hormone Fix: Keto Green by Anna Cabeca MD.

Online forums are great and handy, but there is a wealth of non-dogmatic nuance to be learned from key keto clinicians & researchers. Their different approaches and their similarities - can really help you if you want to flex and increase non-processed carbs and enjoy a few processed carbs on special occasions - and navigate with joie de vivre for sustainable, fat-burning low carb as a way of life.

(Jack Bennett) #54

That’s a great point. Not all “cheats” are created equal.

A deliberate experiment might be “I’m going to eat 1 cup of plain white rice and check glucose 1, 2, and 4 hours after.”

On the other hand, if I go on a junk food and candy binge and rationalize it after the fact as “glucose refeeding” or “testing my glycemic response”, then I’m just fooling myself.

(Marianne) #55

This is what I am afraid of.

I don’t really have cravings for any former binge food in particular, it’s just a thought sometimes. I am more than happy to stay clean.

(Marianne) #56

Agreed, plus keto has been so painless with so many health benefits that I just don’t want to put my body on that roller coaster again.

#57

Thanks for the Cabeca rec, Mary - that’s a new one on me, going to take a look. :slight_smile:

#58

You’re very welcome - I love her book!

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #59

a study can be correct and yet still irrelevant.

7 cheat days a year on a vlckd is only going to be 14/365 as harmful as carbing up all year.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #60

the only thing I can have in moderation is moderation itself.