I'm not stalling...I haven't even budged to start with (Haven't lost either pounds or inches!)

(What The Fast?!) #105

@Countdown2020
@gabe

In the same boat here. Keto for 16 months, lots of exercise, lots of different versions of keto, have had EVERYTHING tested - I even have a SUPER low fasting insulin, and still no loss of body fat or weight.

I just got a full thyroid workup and received my numbers back. It looks like all my numbers are pretty normal, but I just booked an e-visit with Dr Ken Berry to review everything. I don’t know where to turn at this point.I’ve thought about TKD or cyclical keto, but I’m so scared to gain weight at this point, I don’t know what would happen. I have tried extended fasting as well but the weight simply won’t stay off.

I am wondering if there is a subset of people who keto simply won’t work for? I have the MTHFR gene (double mutation) and am just now learning about that. Maybe that’s it? I dunno. Feeling very frustrated.

#106

I started keto at 144, and the lowest after the first week of rapid weight loss (water loss to 140…which I gained back promptly the next week…is 142 after weeks of IF and OMAD…then back to my starting weight once I eat more than that) Now I fluctuate between 147 and 150, so I didn’t lose anything but actually put on weight…and even worse, my fat is mushy and lumpy and getting mushier and lumpier all the time when I never had that problem. The couple of times I stopped keto and went back to the so-called balanced diet, I ballooned daily and the terrible hunger returned to claw at me. Even on keto I don’t know what the satiety everyone talks about feels like. I’m never truly sated.

(Mary) #107

@Olivia1 @KetoLikeaLady @gabe

I kind of like having our own little support section :grinning:. I’d prefer success but you take what you can…

I’m afraid I’m not in a position to offer advice to any of you - you all seem to be working the living crap out of this WOE and your stories are really disturbing to me. The one thing I am grateful for is that I don’t seem to be putting on more weight (except for the 2 or 3 lbs I put on back in Jan, which seem to have taken up permanent residence). On the other hand, I’ve still got around 75 lbs to lose and not being able to lose it whilst being strictly keto makes about as much sense as Andrea cycling 1000 miles a week yet having no results.

Perhaps we could agree to update each other on our “experiments”? I’ll go first - I took my first dose of MCT oil this morning and am peeing like a racehorse. Strange but true…

(What The Fast?!) #108

I’m down. :slight_smile: I’ve been doing 77-80% fat for the last 3 months, I’m going to shift to a lower fat percentage with higher protein, based on my training schedule.

#109

Maybe you need some professional help, have you considered joining Dr Fung’s Intensive Dietary Program? Perhaps there is an underlying issue that you haven’t considered yet that a professional will be able to recognise. The fact that you are never truly sated is very concerning.

(Terence Dean) #110

I solved my own plateau by punching my details into to an online app and discovered I was eating 203% of my fat macro. Dropped that back to close as I could to 100% and immediately got results.

#111

Andrea (and Mary and Olivia), Peter Attia has a new podcast and one of the episodes is with Rhonda Patrick. It’s pretty technical. I usually love science talk, but much of it was beyond me - but I do remember early on that he mentioned finding that about 10% of his patients just don’t do well on keto. I don’t remember what markers he was using (may have been lipids, but he’s very savvy about them so it wasn’t the standard medical assumptions re: cholesterol) but then they went deeper into the science of it. Might be worth a listen for you?

I’m very curious what Dr Berry says.

(What The Fast?!) #112

Thanks Madeleine! I have heard him say that too, but no detail. I’ll give it a listen ASAP!
My blood panels all look good (except for sky high LDL and total cholesterol) so I’m interested in hearing what markers they use!

(Mary) #113

@Olivia1 @KetoLikeaLady @gabe

Morning guys.

This MCT oil is unbelievable! I’m eating less as I’m just not hungry anymore. I was wondering if the fat adaptation thing was ever going to happen as I was struggling with hunger and with all this extra energy hanging off my butt, I couldn’t figure it out. But now I’m easily OMAD and am starting to consider a longer fast.

AND… I’m below my starting weight :grin:

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #114

Wow, this is great! Which brand are you using? I bought the Now Sports one last year sometime, but when I went to have some a few weeks ago I noticed it had palm oil in it. Ew. I’m thinking of just taking some extra coconut oil.

Like @tdean, I’ve started using Cronometer to track what I’m eating, and like Terence I’m finding the most useful aspect of it the macro calculator. I’m just at the very beginning of using it, but I’m starting to learn how quickly you use up your protein quota for the day, and I’m finding it useful to track where I’m at with net carbs for the day. In the past I was guesstimating, but tracking obviously gives me better accuracy than merely eyeballing it.

@Madeleine, I heard that podcast with Attia and Patrick, and he’s said that thing in past interviews (notably with Tim Ferriss) about 10% of his patients not responding well to keto. It’s why I get so annoyed when the first response here by everyone is, “are you eating enough fat?” And it’s why everyone should have some medical supervision while trying a new lifestyle – at the very least, they should have their bloods checked fairly regularly. None of my doctors was insistent that I stop eating LCHF after seeing my bloodwork; even with my relatively high LDL the cardiologist was perfectly happy since I had a calcium score of zero.

(Charlotte) #115

What you’re describing (near-constant ravenous hunger that started at a specific point in time that you can identify and leaves you with “cramping emptiness” even after you’ve eaten what should be a satiating meal) sounds–in my non-medical opinion–like it might be a thyroid issue, even without additional symptoms. Have you talked to your doctor about it?

(Charlotte) #116

Ooooh, what brand?

(Mary) #117

Hi Gabe,

It’s just a cheap one from the grocery store (President’s Choice) but medium chain triglycerides (coconut oil) is the only ingredient.

Interesting what you said about tracking protein with cronometer - I put in yesterday’s food and was over on protein yet all I ate was hwc, a handful of raspberries, and a bag of pork rinds. And I wasn’t over on fat. Weird.

I know we’re all special snowflakes and what works for one is not a guarantee of working for anyone else, but all these little snippets of information are painting an interesting picture for me.

(Terence Dean) #118

Cronometer is really good, I’ve been stuffing around with it to see how they are calculating their deficits, and they’re basically changing the fat calories, the protein and carb values don’t change. Yeah the protein macro is probably the hardest to get right, it really limits what you can eat. For the fats if I’m slightly over I’m not bothered. I’ve been creating my own custom list of foods that I eat regularly, I bought myself a digital kitchen scales the other day which measures anything down to 1gram, 5kg limit. That has been really useful for getting the amounts as close as possible. You can guess but its surprising to see what 25grams of butter or cheese looks like. I actually signed up for a yearly subscription too! You were correct about counting calories, this is exactly what is going on with this app. If I want to lose 2.0lbs/week it requires an average daily deficit of 998 kcal. If that’s not counting calories what is?

cronometer7

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #119

I’ve said this in other threads: calories count. Energy in vs energy out counts. But we don’t need to count calories. Having said this, I do understand that it’s a concern for you, because using an app like this has started focusing my mind on calories.

I’m not sure that’s a bad thing; one of my biggest challenges is eating past satiety. I’m convinced that one of the mechanisms by which LCHF diets work is by making us satiated sooner, because fat is satiating. And we know that another way it likely works is by keeping insulin tamped down, which reduces hunger. So the calories shown on Cronometer ought to be a good indication of how much you should be eating to be satiated; and if you’re still hungry after, something’s wrong on your macros, or you’re consuming something that’s spiking your insulin.

I remain unconvinced by reports from people who say they’ve reduced exercise and massively increased their calorie intake. And I am quite convinced that if I jacked up my fat calories intake, like you I would stack on the weight very quickly.

TL;DR: I wouldn’t focus on the calories, but it’s interesting to see the number.

(What The Fast?!) #120

I wish I was willing to experiment with this…
I’m currently reducing my cardio and increasing weights, keeping calories the same, to see what happens.

#121

The podcast I was referring to was Longo and Patrick - it has a lot of fasting stuff that answers some of your questions! - but yes, the 10% thing from Attia is really interesting. I don’t think that HFLC will work for everyone all the time and I’m uncomfortable with anyone who suggest that it’s the ONLY way of eating. I do think that the reasons keto works for so many can be important starting points for everyone who really wants to look at their food and their health, but not that traditional keto macros are the ultimate answer all the time.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #122

Dr. Phinney says in at least one of his lectures that he figures around 20% of the population has no trouble with carbohydrate and does not become insulin resistant.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #123

I’m sure age figures into it as well. I could get away with anything until I turned fifty.

#124

Thanks, Paul. This was a bit different: it was folks who were drawn to keto and I think even were happy on it but then had markers that were looking worse and worse when they were on it… Attia’s quite savvy about lipids so I don’t think it was your CW concern about LDL>