I'm a Registered Dietitian and I Really Don't Want You to Eat a Carnivore Diet

(traci simpson) #8

…But back then, you didn’t really snack in between meals either. The food quality was different also. There wasn’t any low fat or non fat or 2% crap in the 1960’s. People worked hard and kids played all day long outside. In moderation is a bad reference because we all have different MODERATION levels. Is once a week in moderation? is once a day in moderation? is three times a week in moderation? see what I mean? People say yea, moderation is fine, yet we are still fat.

(hottie turned hag) #9

So true. And snacks were maybe ONE per day after school. And none of us ate after dinner, that was unheard of when I was growing up.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #10

I think inflammatory foods are better eliminated than limited for best results. I gave up drinking milk long before keto for this exact reason.

While I understand the ability of some undamaged people to eat certain foods like fruits, grains and starchy vegetables or ones that are high in anti nutrients, and things like honey I have found elimination of these foods to be the best solution. I am really diving deep into some of the reasons people choose carnivore recently although I haven’t given it a trial. But as time goes on I am more and more intrigued by the concept, the hardest thing for me would be elimination of herbs and spices and condiments which kind of make my world go around.

I guess my former belief in the everything in moderation and balance was self deceptive as it didn’t serve me well in the end, becoming an overweight, one legged kidney cancer survivor, and the resulting 10 years on dialysis and the massive damages that did, followed by a kidney transplant that led to rapidly developing diabetes from the steroids I have to take post transplant. That one was the last straw for me.

Luckily I have a cast iron immune system and I have yet to get sick after 1 1/2 years post transplant. So my moderate belief system nearly destroyed me before I figured out drastic measures were needed to climb out of my hole. Going keto saved my life and I honestly believe that I would still have both of my kidneys and not had to go through what I did, would have never gotten fat, would have both my legs in good health, would never have developed atherosclerosis in my lower body with neuropathy in my only foot and more. It’s a very deep rabbit hole of mistakes and poor choices that led me where I am. But I was ignorant. It all stemmed from my diet and belief in moderation and the atherosclerosis I developed before I was 30 years old. Just sayin…:cowboy_hat_face:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #11

Which countries would those be? :cowboy_hat_face:

(hottie turned hag) #12

I’m thinking Japan, the Netherlands, France, just off the top. Well, not dairy in Japan.

(Bunny) #13

First sentence starts out:

”…Could you eat nothing but steak and eggs for the rest of your life? …” …More

YES ABSOLUTELY! (and if you don’t, you will definitely shorten your life-span…if you could stay away from the junk food long enough? Just don’t eat massive amounts per-meal in contrast to your body fat or lean muscle mass)

It would also probably save your life if you ate this way often enough if you are plagued with a fatty liver and pancreas (which most people likely are and they don’t even know it) with the amount of Carnitine and Choline your supplying your mitochondria to prevent the accumulation of visceral fat, even possibly get rid of it; even on a high carb diet…

I never confuse higher carbohydrate intake with eating junk food? Big mistake!

References:

[1] ”…Carnitine is intimately involved in getting fatty acids into the mitochondria where they can be burned for fuel. There are two different types of carnitine transporters in the membrane of mitochondria that allow the fats to get from the cytoplasm into the heart of the mitochondria so that they can be burned to make ATP. If you are lacking in these transporters, then your body will be unable to get the ATP it needs from fat and will use carbs instead, allowing your fat to stay right on your hips. If you over-express these carnitine transporters (like they did in the rat model in reference 1) you will get an increase in fatty acid oxidation, a lowering of triglyceride levels, and an increase in skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity. This supplement seemed like it could be a cure-all for fat loss, at lease if we put our faith in the biochemistry. …” L-Carnitine and Choline | Do They Work For Weight Loss?

[2] “…We have found that choline was more effective than methionine in decreasing the liver steatosis of KD-fed mice. On the other hand, methionine supplementation was more effective than choline in restoring weight gain and normalizing the expression of several fatty acid and inflammatory genes in the liver of KD-fed mice. Our results indicate that choline and methionine restriction rather than carbohydrate restriction underlies many of the metabolic effects of KD. …” …More

[3] Choline is a lipotropic agent (6,7) that prevents deposition of fat in the liver. …More

[4] “…Carnitine is accumulated by the cells and retained by kidneys using OCTN2, a high affinity organic cation transporter specific for carnitine. Defects in the OCTN2 carnitine transporter results in autosomal recessive primary carnitine deficiency characterized by decreased intracellular carnitine accumulation, increased losses of carnitine in the urine, and low serum carnitine levels. Patients can present early in life with hypoketotic hypoglycemia and hepatic encephalopathy, or later in life with skeletal and cardiac myopathy or sudden death from cardiac arrhythmia, usually triggered by fasting or catabolic state. This disease responds to oral carnitine that, in pharmacological doses, enters cells using the amino acid transporter B0,+. …More

[5] “…Red meat has the highest levels. A 4-ounce beef steak has an estimated 56 mg to 162 mg of carnitine. Carnitine is also found in smaller amounts in chicken, milk and dairy products, fish, beans, and avocado. Vegans tend to get less carnitine from foods, but their bodies usually produce enough anyway? …More

(Murphy Kismet) #14

I would add that maybe these countries’ veggies, milk, and grains are not as processed, or polluted as the america’s “foods” are. Even in Canada, the milk from the prairies is significantly different, and BETTER, than the milk found in Ontario. Ontario’s milk has added emulsifiers to it, whereas the milk found in Saskatchewan and Alberta don’t have these additives, so much less allergenic.

Same with grains. Many of the americans’ grains are loaded with pesticides, but in European countries, these pesticides are not allowed.

So there might be a vast difference in the quality of the food that makes the difference between health and chronic illness.

(traci simpson) #15

Wow, my friend! you have been through a lot. I’m glad your on the uphill and not the downhill.

(traci simpson) #16

the grain that farmers use has to be purchased new each year from Montesano (I think). Farmers that want to be Sustainable have a hard time because they are not allowed to use their own seeds!

(Brian) #17

At one time, I was not someone who could eat just one spoonful of Ben & Jerry’s or one potato chip or one pretzel or a tiny piece of a real whoopie pie, etc. I was a pig! I’d want massive quantities of all of those things, all at the same time! I’d eat them until I was nearly so full I was ready to pop.

After nearly 2 years eating mostly keto, things have changed. Last weekend, I did indeed eat one spoonful of Ben & Jerry’s, not the other stuff, but I did have a spoonful of ice cream. My nephew wanted me to taste it, it’s his favorite flavor. No, it wasn’t a serving spoon heaped high, either. It was about a tablespoon of ice cream. And I was totally good with that. It was very sweet, too sweet. It was tasty, I wouldn’t say it wasn’t. But I had no desire for more.

Times when I’ve had bits and pieces of stuff that I used to love, like real bread, I’ve usually been quite disappointed. It doesn’t taste as good as it used to. My tastes have changed. Yes, I still eat a few chips at the Mexican restaurant when we go (only a few times a year), but not 4 baskets of them like I used to. A few satisfy me just fine. (Mostly, I’m after the guacamole and the salsa that they’re the vehicle for…)

I know, not everybody gets to that point. Some people battle things for a lifetime. Can some who were once serious alcoholics ever get to the point where they can enjoy a glass of wine with dinner and be completely satisfied with that? I don’t know. Maybe some can. Maybe some can’t.

I feel very blessed that some of the old habits and tendencies have changed for me. I’m thankful. (I’m not bragging, honest I’m not. But truly, I am thankful.)

(Bob M) #18

After 5.5 years of low carb/keto, I still can’t eat one tortilla chip, and if we buy an ice cream cake for someone (have two kids, one local grandma), we buy a size that we call all eat in one sitting.

If I want something like these things, usually we order them out. I have no issues going (infrequently) to an ice cream shop, for instance. (Though I still get hungry afterwards and usually eat meat when I get home.) We even had some tortillas at a restaurant a few weeks ago. (I’m now more concerned with the oils they use than the corn.)

But this whole “eat everything in moderation” is really for those companies who sell soda, chips, and other junk food. If all calories are the same, they make out. It’s not their products, it’s your inability to cease eating them. But the reality is, many people – of which I am one – always overeat certain foods. Always. And my whole family does. If I eat enough pork chops for instance, I don’t want any more pork chops and in fact wouldn’t eat them if you put a gun to my head. But I can eat way more tortillas, pretzels, ice cream, …, than I should. And I’m not weak-willed.

It’s the whole “just exercise more and eat less” philosophy, wrapped in a different wrapper: if you gain weight, you’re not exercising enough or you’re eating too much. You’re at fault, not their advice or their food. And they are wrong with that, and they are wrong with “eat everything in moderation”.

(Nasir) #19

I think there may be an acceptable version of “eat everything in moderation” for people with normal metabolism. That version has to say “Eat all organic wholefoods in moderation”.

I think ultra-processed and most processed food has to be declared dangerous/poisonous and humanity has to accept some loss of wealth for few for the sake of health and well being of everyone.

(Cheryl Meyers) #20

I live in Tokyo and am seeing a lot more overweight and obese people year by year. They eat a lot of processed food these days. Sadly the traditional diet is fading away. Toast and pastry for breakfast instead of grilled fish and rice with miso soup. Still behind western rates but it’s climbing.

#21

There’s a lot to be said for how far the diet you eat diverges from your ancestral way of eating.

For example, take a recently indigenous-diet population of say, Australian Aborigines or American Indians and introduce the standard western diet. You get an almost instant decline in health. Take someone with a lineage to people who evolved in a tropical climate, eating fruits and other vegetation and compare them to someone whose ancestors ate mostly meat and dairy for most of their history. Different responses.

Also, unhealthy parents will pass on epigenetic traits to their offspring so you see an amplification of diseases over generations.

(Mark Rhodes) #22

Fallacy of Authority.

(Mark Rhodes) #23

Like as recent as Dec 2106 when my wife said to me “I want your help in trying this ketogenic diet” - because after my engineering degree I studied exercise physiology and nutrition at UW Whitewater in the mid nineties…my reply? “That’s fucking crazy. You cannot lose fat EATING fat!! Fat will only burn in the flame of carbohydrate!!!”

I hate when she is right and I am wrong. Being slightly competitive when I failed to get the results I was seeing on Facebook and the Forums, I took this shit seriously and bam we got some fantastic results.

#24

That reminds me… I was downloading and reading a few sample books to Kindle and one of them stated up front, in no uncertain terms, that the low carb, high fat thing was utter nonsense and then said proponents of such a diet do not understand what a calorie is! 'Cause we’re dumb. :rofl:

Book deleted.

(Mark Rhodes) #25

That’ll show 'em how dumb we are. :sunglasses:

I have wondered if to get this thing going we shouldn’t try litigation with the universities for falsely selling education rather than opinions. Or some thing like this…rather than attempting to get back tuition paid, a public repudiation of the food pyramid by the leading schools as “payment” would go a very long way in reforming policy. Probably farther than Nina’s Nutrition Coalition.

#26

What would those emulsifiers be? I only ever drink farm fresh milk now, so I’m not sure about store milk, but when I did drink store milk I’ve only ever seen milk and vitamin d in the ingredients. Cream is a completely different story. The most popular cream brand: cream, milk, carrageenan, mono and diglycerides, cellulose gum, polysorbate 80, sodium citrate.

Though, I would have to say, they should have a different name for milk and cream from the store. It is different in taste and texture.

(Murphy Kismet) #27

@Halo Those would be the added ingredients I was talking about. All to make the milk look good and healthy, and have a longer fridge-shelf life. I don’t think they need to be in there. :frowning:

When I use dairy (mostly cheeses), I look for just dairy ingredients. Can’t always find that, so I need to compromise sometimes. The whipping cream we buy has only “organic milk” as an ingredient.