Yes, of course I do. How else would I be able to calculate my GKI?
I do OMAD and my GKI is usually under 3. I’d like to get it to between 1 and 2, the closer to 1 (or under) the better. I test right before eating, so its usually close to a 20+ hour fast (if you don’t include the MCT oil & MCT powder I put in water).
Ultimately, if you’re trying to lose weight, you need to be eating at some sort of deficit. How much of a deficit (and what that deficit is) absolutely depends on a lot more than a simplistic CICO model and as we know has a lot to do with what you’re eating, your insulin response, your existing RMR, and many other factors.
Many people seem to find this point just by eating to satiety, and their n=1 becomes the rule for everyone. But it is not true for many, many people (I’m one of those people). It’s fine if you can eat what you want without tracking and meet your health goals. Congrats! I would like us to be a little more accepting of people who are different and need to keep a closer eye on things as @Rclause has pointed out to meet their goals without someone saying “you’re doing it wrong.”
I’ve never criticized what works for others - just present what worked for me in case it helps someone.
That was the third WOE high fiber. He said he was miserable trying to eat 6000 calories of high fiber. He felt like he had to eat morning to night.
For most foods, estimates based on Atwater values are close enough. But certain foods, again, retain some of their calories as they pass through our gut. For example, the fat in almonds and certain other nuts is incompletely digested. In a 2012 study, USDA scientist Janet Novotny and her colleagues found that the measured energy content of a 28-gram serving of almonds was actually 32 percent less than the Atwater values estimate.
Forgot to link some evidence about my statement about the 5700 calorie 21 day study.
If he was eating nearly 3000 calories a day in nuts, that amount drops to roughly 4700 calories a day over a 21 day period. He states he ate 5794 calories a day for 21 days, while his maintenance (TDEE) was 3096 calories a day. He also ate 3084 calories a day in nuts. If you subtract the 32% of calories you don’t absorb from nuts you get, 2098 calories from nuts.
So he realistically was closer to 4808 a day.
4808 caloric intake a day with a 3096 maintenance over 21 days would roughly be around =10.2lbs he could’ve gained. Instead he gain 2.9lbs, which could be very well accredited to water depletion, as 7.3lbs of water lost in 3 weeks of keto is very typical.
Like I said, when you introduce science those results aren’t abnormal. The source of the calories matter significantly as well as the overall caloric intake.
He gained weight lol. If we both placed a bet on whether he’d gain or lose weight after 21 days, you’d be paying me.
For the most part, I’m all about each person doing what he or she needs to do to be successful in their life. I realize that, for some, weighing everything makes them happy. For me, I read that sentence and thought “Wow, kind of a sad way to live life.”
Again, that’s MY idea of a sad way to live life and doesn’t apply to everyone. There are people here who won’t eat at restaurants or buy pre-packaged food because then they can’t know exactly what’s in it. Granted, I don’t think anyone should eat out all the time or eat all pre-packaged foods, but that’s an extreme…so the extreme in the other direction isn’t good either. MOST people will have some kind of occasion that includes eating at a restaurant, or a friend’s house, etc. To live life having to weigh everything or needing to know exactly what’s in everything they eat, just seems kind of sad to me.
And honestly, a scale is NOT required to know if you’re over-eating or not. If your clothes start to feel a bit snug, it’s time to cut back on something. It’s not rocket science. And it’s ok to over do it one day…there’s a good chance you’ll be LESS hungry the next. And to me, that’s what keto is about…listening to your body’s signals. Extra hungry? Eat more? Not very hungry? Don’t eat.
True it is a win on your part “technically”
. I think if you listen to the podcast you will find it interesting. Not saying that it will sway you or be an attempt to. They did get into the points made by others of flaws in the experiment and such. I am not trying to call a N=1 as the best science but I did find it informative and interesting.
You also acknowledged that you believe a calorie is a calorie, which is something that is not borne out by the experience of many on these forums, deeply though that thinking runs in our society.
Have you read Sam Feltham’s write-up of his experience eating 5000 calories a day for three weeks? It’s most illuminating. The key, of course, is that it was a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet:
If you take the time to read his article, you will see that the weight gained was lean tissue; he actually lost a bit of fat at the same time, though not much, because he was already lean at the time of the experiment. This is to be expected on a ketogenic diet, and it runs counter to the CICO model, which posits that all weight gained will be fat storage. Since he was already eating a ketogenic diet before he began the experiment, I don’t believe that much of the lost weight would have been water.
That’s not what the CICO model says. Evidently, you are not as much of a CICO supporter as you initially pretended. Good!
Just reading this thread exhausts me…
Yes, weigh your food if it gives you some sort of satisfaction. It’s always interesting to read what trackers learn about their own food habits.
I’ll opt out, however. I don’t want to know about calories, and I common-sense my meals. It’s working for now, and when it has worked enough, I’ll eat as much raw potato and fruits as I want. (That won’t really be much).
Sorry, I didn’t intend to derail the thread. It was the weighing and CICO that reminded me of the podcast. It was not so much the science (hard numbers) that I recalled but it was so entertaining that I will probably play it again.
Anyway weigh if you like but even when counting I never did. I thought logging was bad enough but I just don’t have the time to do either. When I was counting I must have been good at my estimating because I lost 53 pounds (100% of my excess). Keto for me works without weighing and I like it that way but that is just me.
Personally, I think keto works best when eating to satiety. I believe that the human metabolism is regulated by hormones, and that the hormones are probably more important than energy balance. I track my macros. I also track my calories. Sometimes I even weigh my food. I don’t see a contradiction in any of those things.
The reason I track calories, is because I believe that when a metabolism is no longer deranged, and things like insulin resistance have been resolved, it functions very efficiently. When this happens the formerly useless CICO model becomes much more predictive. I track how closely my actual weight loss tracks the CICO prediction based on calorie consumption, because it’s an exceptional benchmark to see how well my metabolism is running and reacting to specific foods.
This is the chart of my weight loss for the past 3 months or so. I’ve lost about 40lbs. I eat to satiety. I like fasting. The blue line is my actual weight. The yellow line is what an equation derived from CICO research predicts. Notice it’s almost perfect right up until March, and then it blows up. I ate a ton of carbs and drank a bunch of whiskey around my birthday. My metabolism went totally haywire and the model completely lost it’s predictive power. It’s an object lesson in the inadequacy of CICO, and how much devastation carbs & alcohol inflict on a well functioning metabolism. It’s also a validation of the CICO model when a metabolism is healthy and performing optimally on keto. Cool right?
This tool keeps me on track. It only works if with careful calorie tracking, and that requires a scale. Does this mean I’m no longer doing keto?
That’s a rather trivial amount of weight gain considering the amount of calories he was eating. And who’s to say that the gain wasn’t water? We fluctuate +/- one to three pounds of water on a daily basis.
And he also lost 3 cm on his waist.
According to standard calorie calculations, he figures that he should have gained 7.3kg of fat
If all calories are created equal, the above quote is a direct contradiction.
Hormones are more important than energy balance. The type of food being eaten, and the macros being eaten affect these hormones. This in no way means that energy balance isn’t relevant. People stall on keto all the time. Many people gain fat while on keto. More still struggle to maintain once they’ve reached a healthy weight on keto. It even happens here on the forum. Why?
I’ve lost 40lbs in the last 3 months eating under 20g of carbs a day. I eat to satiety regardless of what the calories say. I track my calories and weigh my foods. Am I doing keto wrong?
Should people like me be allowed to discuss the way we do keto, and what’s working for us or not working for us? These are not rhetorical questions.
Yes, somebody take away his key to the keto club.
I admit I do like to see data but I am limited to BF and weight that my scale logs for me. Your charts are amazing though.
No one is saying you can’t discuss these things or that you’re doing Keto wrong. People who are against CICO are also allowed to voice their opinions on why we think it’s at best flawed, and at worst psychologically and physiologically harmful to people.
