I have come to a realization. Keto and me

#1

It’s not you, keto. It’s me.

I was never the MCT oil swilling macrotracking keto person but I used Cronometer while I was losing weight and rarely stayed from the plan. Once in a while I’d have a chance to eat at a truly world class restaurant and might take a weekend off. Last weekend is Lisbon I ate at Bel Canto, a two Michelin starred restaurant that is one of the worlds best. So I ate whatever they brought including some bread and dessert. But since Lisbon is home to my old favorite dessert (pastele de nata or the Portuguese egg tart) I had some. No, I had a whole lot of them in their flaky sweet goodness.

I remember how I often hear someone on these forums post about eating some high carb stuff and then feeling physically ill afterwards. Could be. Could be psychological to a degree. After my pig out session (lasting the whole weekend) I just felt really, really full. Like smile on the face full.

I’m sure many of you believe carbs are poison and the keto WOE has vast benefits beyond weight loss.

Others who are quite doctrinaire about what they will eat (“no net carbs for me!” “No more than 6 ingredients” “only grass fed beef” “peanuts? I’d rather die!”)

Maybe one or both groups are right.

I’m just in it to lose weight. That worked great and if I slip up and get more than 5 or so pounds over my goal I go back to strict keto.

But as for now I will eat some beans, peanuts, too many tomatoes and berries. and track net carbs when and if I do.

Enjoy yourself!

#2

Your trip report was wonderful. It sounds as if you enjoyed your restaurant very well and had a blast :slight_smile:

Eat what you want when you want. Is it the best way to eat? Nope. Is it the wrong way to eat? Nope :slight_smile:

If I carb up I get physically sick. But everyone will be different on this also so you are one who had a big smile and that is cool…lol

Everyone has to do their own thing thru life. Everyone chooses their own food path and how they want to swing it.

Do what makes it all work for you. When you find that, you are a winner in so many ways.

Talk down home and dirty nutrition standpoint, the sugar content in foods, etc. everyone’s personal feelings on food will come out. That is natural.

Chat how you want to do your keto and eat your way thru life…hey that is all on you :slight_smile: But if you post about gaining or not feeling well after eating xyz then Keto people on a Keto forum will jump in and say watch those carbs LOL I mean it’s a keto forum, for keto plans, for being in ketosis, for keto adapted bodies, for people wanting constant state of ketosis, not jump in and out of ketosis. That would be my only thoughts on it…but have at whatever you want. I am sure not ever gonna stop ya HAHA

(Bunny) #3

Yes I agree, very psychological almost placebo?

I can eat anything I want now cakes, cookies, donuts it does not matter I just don’t do it constantly, it is my awareness that cannot be taken from me, it was my previous naiveity that got me into trouble.

(John) #4

Sounds like you have achieved your maintenance level and restored normal metabolic function. I believe that is the goal.

Keep in mind that many of the regular posters may have other genetic, health, metabolic, emotional, or psychological issues that require them to have more strict rules to be successful.

Those who don’t have any of those issues can usually return to a more flexible eating pattern once they achieve a goal weight.

Just keep in mind - the real challenge is keeping the weight off long term. Many people who are successful at losing weight, gain it all back when they stop doing what was working. Remain vigilant.

I have successfully lost weight before, gotten complacent because I could get away with the occasional dessert and not see an immediate impact, and over time that allowed the old bad habits to creep back in, and over time you gain it back.

Set yourself a red-alert level, and I would suggest that you make that level not too high above your maintenance weight, and go back into full-court press the moment you hit it.

You got overweight in the first place for a reason or reasons. You were able to lose it by changing behavior or mind-set or both. If you stop doing what was working, expect the original reason(s) to re-manifest.

(Bob M) #5

Or just wear a continuous glucose monitor. I’ve seen shocking values wearing a CGM from things I’ve though were “safe” to eat.

I will eat potatoes, tomatoes, onions, even berries at times, even ice cream, etc. This weekend, we had people over for taco bar, and and I ate salsa, onions, tomatoes, jalepenos, in a bowl. (Was still in ketosis, by the way, at least on Monday.) My wife and I will go to a steak place, and they’ll give us a potato with butter, sour cream, etc. I will eat half of that. (No option to substitute for vegetables, unfortunately.) But eating meat + veggies means for me my blood sugar is never above about 110. Eating potatoes, rice (sushi), or anything with sugar or wheat in it will result in excursions of 180+. Once you see that, it’s hard to unsee it.

#6

That red-alert level idea is excellent and I have been planning to do that… My all time high was 260 but I got down to 235 more or less by not being such a pig and walking … my initial goal was 200 and I was going to set that as my level. Then 190. Then 185.

I got back from that trip where I ate way too much (but walked a LOT) and am under 180 for the first time since 1972. If I can stay here for a week I may set that alert even lower than 185 where I had been happy with it.

#7

I have been able to give up potatoes and ice cream but the onions and tomatoes stay in my diet. I don’t need a blood glucose monitor. I can tell easily enough when my blood sugar is high… And it was no doubt off the chart after that weekend eating egg tarts and other Portugese goodies. But it recovered nicely enough… I have a pretty well developed sense of what is going to impact my blood sugar levels although I get a few surprises.

Came home to chaffles, scrambled eggs and bacon for breakfast… The Keto WOE is my default but I don’t get ill from excursions and don’t fell guilty. Room in the forum for all of us I assume.

(hottie turned hag) #8

Indeed there should be. Extreme zealot views bug me because they’re scientifically unsound. What works for one will not for the next etc.

LIke my lifetime vegetarian, now 7+ yr vegan daughter, who eats much veg/fruit/grains and my freak o’nature mutant pal who eats ONLY processed carbs and sugar by the pound yet both are in stellar shape (doc verified).

They’re not the norm, no! But they exist.

I wish I could have a foray here and there into carb foods I love, like tacos or Italian bread heros but in my case that doesn’t work. I envy folk like you who can!

#9

Going in and out of ketosis.

bad? I don’t think. humans have been doing it for eons.

It boils down to what you want. How you want to live. Does allowing some food draw you back to carb/cropland? If so you know you.

Does eating some sugar during whatever occasions make this way of life doable for you and you go back to a controlled smart menu plan. Great! You are one who can do that.

Does any of the above work against you physically or emotionally?

It boils down to know you, what you can do and stay healthy.

In and out of ketosis is not ‘bad’ by any means for your body.

What it means physically and emotionally in an individual is an absolute truth. It is what is means to you and only you.

So just some chatting on that and personal views on it all and I know everyone follows what they do best on and how it has to be handled for them.

(Bob M) #10

No, you can’t. Believe me, you can’t. On this day (see below), everyone else gets sushi. I got “seafood salad” (ostensibly, greens and seafood) and hot and sour soup (ostensibly, soup with shrimp, veggies, nothing else), and sashimi (fish only). The blood sugar rise was about as high as two slices of ICE CREAM PIE.

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I had no freaking clue I had such high blood sugar for what I thought was a “clean” meal, until I downloaded the data later.

(Daisy) #11

For some people, perhaps. I’m not one of them. These foods made me sick before, now they make me twice as sick. When my body gets what it’s supposed to get for any extended period of time, it rejects the bad upon re-introduction. It’s happened for years with milk, sugar, nut butter, etc. my experience is all the evidence I need.

(PJ) #12

My current experiment is partly about this. I’m fasting for 3.5 days and then when I refeed, am doing it with a bit higher cals and significantly higher carbs (like 80-100) and then dropping a little over four days. On the last half-day of eating I’m to 20-35ecc and 2200 cal, and then back to the 88-92hr fast.

I think the body should, if healthy, have the metabolic flexibility to shift between energy sources. I would like to think that it doesn’t have to be all or nothing one way or the other. I have several other reasons for this particular experiment for a few weeks, but forcing ‘flexibility’ is what I consider one more positive part of it.

That is a consideration about eating this way I never had before.
Totally aside from how good / happy I felt when briefly upping my carbs, sheesh.

(Bunny) #13

Probably a result of not being able to seal up a leaky gut?

You could probably try more bone broth and resistant starch in your diet, that could be why when you re-introduce those previous foods those problems follow consistently? (that’s how you trouble shoot)

If I had such a problem I would definitely get a leaky gut test to get the “evidence” I need?

(Bunny) #14

I wonder if that has to do with those foods not engaging your insulin like red meat does and why the rise in glucose?

That’s very interesting, love those charts, keep posting them.

(Bob M) #15

Someone theorized the soup had something like cornstarch as a thickener. This seems like the most plausible explanation, as that’s essentially pure “sugar”. It’s possible the seafood salad had something in it that was sweet, though it did not taste sweet to me.

However, my sense of sweetness can be blunted. We make some “South Carolina” mustard sauce. This uses brown sugar, mustard, AC vinegar, hot sauce. I save some of the carbs by using Swerve to replace about half or 1/3 of the brown sugar. With all that sweetness (3 tablespoons per about 1 cup of mustard/other stuff), I can’t taste any sweetness. It tastes good, but not sweet. Maybe the AC vinegar and hot sauce counteract the sweetness?

But things like popcorn, which people think is high carb, cause me zero blood sugar rise (for the amount we make and I eat). Things I thought for sure would cause a rise (fresh salsa, red onions, tomatoes, even small pieces of real cheesecake), don’t. The “normal” things, ice cream, real pizza, etc., obviously do.

But if you and I ate the same exact foods, we might get two different responses.

I definitely believe one can go in and out of ketosis, as I do at least a handful or two of times per year. But it depends on the person. If eating carbs is going to cause you a week or a month of debauchery, it’s dangerous to do so. I’m not like that, at least any more.

The other thing is that I’ve been doing this for almost 6 years. I can eat two slices of ice cream for a birthday party at dinner and be in ketosis by the next day sometime. See this for instance. Had ice cream both Saturday and Sunday, and was still in ketosis (or at least producing some ketones) on Monday morning:

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So I may not be the best representation of someone who hasn’t been doing things this long.

Edit: I guess I didn’t explain this chart. The column staring with 0.6 is from a Keto Mojo, the next column is ketonix breath ketones, the next column is pin-prick blood sugar, and since I have 4 different monitors, I put which monitor in the comments column.

#16

I assume you meant “I can’t and here is a graph with no y-axis that shows why I can’t so you probably can’t either”

And I meant “when my blood sugar is way high for a while I can definitely tell” --not that I can detect brief spikes.

#17

absolutely understand this.
your body is non toxic and when you re-introduce the toxins it reacts.
I feel it physically also…makes me know my body and what it needs and what it never wants again. I so get this!

#18

wow that was an interesting read on your experimenting.

I don’t fast. I like to eat every single day so a fasting type thing won’t ever fit into my life…but it is great you are doing what suits you. Finding the sweet spot to make it work.

How you fast, eat around 100 carbs and then fast again is beyond me…you got super human strength or something I don’t know about HAHA

Experimenting on flexibility is smart.
My plan is carnivore and my flexibility is allowing like 1/4 cup cocktail sauce with my shrimp. It has only 12g carbs for that and I can handle it easily and it never sends me off. Now if I did 12g of some other food, I could go crazy and I would never allow it. I know my triggers and my bad for me, but it is great we experiment to find the things we can allow and be flexible and thrive. Cool.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #19

I had a night when I accidentally had a non sugar-free tea. And no, it wasn’t very sweet, so I couldn’t tell the difference. I knew my glucose was up because of the physical reaction I had. I felt terrible, and I checked my glucose, and it confirmed it.

#20

I did that when first starting low carb long ago. I would eat some sauce or whatever on my low carb food when eating out and never ever notice it as ‘too sweet’ and then when I went off all of it into extreme low carb and carnivore and got good time under my belt.

I can taste sugar a mile away in anything LOL

We went out and I got unsweet tea and took a big swig of regular and omg I almost hit the floor. I spit it back into the glass.

Like when hubby and I were at a fancy place and he ordered whatever and it came with a side of fancy fresh green beans that were flavored up and he was like…omg the best I ever had in my life. I took one nibble and said those things are loaded with sugar…he was like no way and I was like oh hell yea they are…I wouldn’t touch those with a 39 1/2 foot pole.