How much to eat - newbie

(H) #5

Thanks! I love the coffee I put cream and coconut oil it works out to about 350 but does keep me satisfied for about 4-5 hours.

I’m not massively active as I sit in an office five days a week. I go swimming 3 or so times a week and horse riding plus walking about a bit. I’m certainly no Olympian but I’ve always had to curb cals as a rule because of my thyroid being under active. But part of doing this is to try to sort that out too… if I can.

I did try eating to 1800 at the weekend but felt very bloated then which is really the reason for the question - I can’t work out whether you push through that to get cals up!

#6

It seems this amount isn’t too little for you then, definitely don’t force more… I would continue and see what happens. Eat if you are hungry, don’t worry about calories unless it drops more, that wouldn’t be good. Don’t keep your energy that low if you happen to want more, of course. Get satiated, not too much, not too little :slight_smile:

But if you want to be more active and to eat more (and at some point you will want to maintain anyway) and you can’t with your current food choices and timing, change something. Most of us have food items less and more satiating, I definitely eat more if I simply add another meal…

#7

This is, or can, be a big problem for some folks. Watching it too closely. … And it’s also why I’ve always personally stated that “Time always tells a better story”. The scale can jump by pounds daily, much less hourly, so one shouldn’t pay too much attention to it in the long run. Its an ok device to help track things but there’s sometimes other things going on that don’t always show on the scale. Some might feel loss in the way their clothes fit, but the scale itself may not have changed for a while.

For me, I weigh once a week (Sunday mornings) just for record keeping purposes. But I don’t use it solely as a guide as to if things are indeed going well or not. Just another tool in the box really.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

As noted, 1200-1400 total calories per day doesn’t sound like much. However, as you can see from this chart from Phinney’s Virta Health, it might be right. Depending how much endogenous fat you’ve got to work with. I think the key is if you don’t feel hungry all the time you’re probably doing fine. Hungry before meals is OK, just the way to tell you it’s time to eat. Hungry all the time is not OK, it’s the way your body tells you to eat more.

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Bloating at the start -hard stomach feeling
(H) #9

Thanks! That’s a really interesting graph. And I guess I’m still at induction stage at only 2.5 weeks in too.
I think I’ll just try to stick to the eat when hungry rule and see what happens with that. I like eating less at night to be honest which is what has seemed to have happened the last few days. If I don’t lose in a week or so I might readjust and take it week by week… I guess as long as it’s not a gain you can afford to play with it a bit! I do feel healthier and more energised already which is the main thing!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

Keto is a process of metabolic normalization. Years/decades eating SAD does damage and it takes time to fix it. Frequently, other stuff takes precedence to weight/fat loss.

Bloating at the start -hard stomach feeling
(H) #11

This is what really appeals to me about it.
2.5 weeks in and I’m already waking up earlier, feeling better and drinking tons of water. It’s also encouraged me to stop drinking (I know you don’t need to but for general health!)
One of the reasons I’m so keen for it to work so I don’t fall of the wagon but I’m loving it so far and tbh I haven’t even missed bread, chips etc which, before this, only a few weeks ago, I would have said I could never live without!

#12

Is drinking tons of water a good thing? Are you feeling very thirsty? If so, perhaps you should test your blood sugar to see if you have diabetes. If you do have diabetes, it’s a good thing you’re doing keto!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #13

Thirst is our built-in water meter. Drinking to satisfy it is good. Drinking some arbitrary amount not so much. Keep in mind, though, that the daily total water intake between individuals can vary quite a lot due to a multitude of individual variables. Just because so-and-so says “a liter of water is plenty” they’re actually saying “I drink a liter of water and find it sufficient”. You may or may not. Conversely, when someone claims “I drink tons of water” what are they actually saying? “I drink more water than I did before”? Maybe. And they probably are simply because keto enables more water throughput than high carb eating. You have to drink an awful lot of water before you get into trouble. Peeing every 15-30 minutes is usually the first warning to back off.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

This is good advice. We generally need a bit more salt on a ketogenic diet, which generally also entails drinking a bit more. Given the individual variability involved, you are right to suggest listening to our body rather than drinking to some arbitrary target.

It was Prof. Tim Noakes, the marathoner and sports physiologist, who first suggested that runners should worry about hydration, and now the sport drink manufacturers’ advice has gotten so extreme that runners have started landing in the hospital with messed-up electrolytes from over-hydration, and a few have even died. (I remember reading “By the time you feel thirsty, it’s too late; you are already in dire need of water,” and thinking that couldn’t be right.) Prof. Noakes has publicly apologised and started recommending drinking only to thirst.

(H) #15

Thanks for this. I don’t have diabetes (I do test it every now and then and it’s always fine). I think it’s just because of the upped protein and fat and with it, salt.

(H) #16

Thanks. I’ve always drank a lot, either in the form of water or tea (and then more water because tea is a diuretic!). I’m a three drinks at a time type of person but I’ve cut out cordial, which I used to drink litres of, in favour of water. I do feel more thirsty but o do think it’s because I’ve been eating more salt because the diet is more savoury.

(H) #17

Thanks! What is your view of Amy Berger since I’ve been reading quite a few of her posts and her book and what she says about lessening fat intake (when you have fat to lose like I do) in favour of higher protein is a good thing.
Your posts seem to lean to the science aw well which is why I’d be interested to know your thoughts!

(Jenn) #18

My personal approach (as a 40yo woman, 5’5" with a current weight of 180lbs and a goal weight of 150lbs) is I eat when I’m hungry and stop when I’m satiated. If I’m not hungry enough for a meal, I simply wait until I am. Some days I’m naturally inclined to consume 800 calories. Other days it’s 1,500. But I’m losing weight, so I know it’s balancing out.

I come from a background of disordered eating. Periods of extreme calorie restriction followed by weeks-long binges. Keto has really helped me reconnect with my body’s hunger and satiety cues :grin:

(H) #19

Thanks!! This is really helpful and similar to what I’ve been doing. I’m 40, 5’5 and 150 but I want to lose the last 15 ideally. I was 198 way back when and though I’ve managed to keep that off (I’d gotten down to 135) I’ve wrestled between 135-150 for the last few years.
I was the same with the calories up to this week- I feel more hungry and have needed to go up to 1600-1700 every day - the natural curbing doesnt seem to have happened as easily this week!

(H) #20

Thanks!! This is really helpful and similar to what I’ve been doing. I’m 40, 5’5 and 150 but I want to lose the last 15 ideally. I was 198 way back when and though I’ve managed to keep that off (I’d gotten down to 135) I’ve wrestled between 135-150 for the last few years.
I was the same with the calories up to this week- I feel more hungry and have needed to go up to 1600-1700 every day - the natural curbing doesnt seem to have happened as easily this week!

#21

I wonder if I should envy you two… I am 44, 5’4", just below 170lbs and if my body is inclined to eat 2000+ kcal (I need more carbs for 4000 and don’t go above, thankfully. that wouldn’t be pretty)… Inclided here means it takes doing everything right and a smallish miracle to go much lower. 1600 is the bare minimum (impossible every day but 1500 isn’t realistic even for once) but considering that amount isn’t always enough for me in one sitting to stop being hungry even on carnivore choosing very good items, my work is cut out for me! :smiley:

If the eaten amount definitely isn’t right, some tweaking (mostly food choices) may be one direction but something we just need to figure out what is good enough reason to eat and stop eating, I think. It’s not always eat when hungry, stop when satiated, I can’t use either, it doesn’t work for me. Something along those lines but not quite…

(H) #22

I’ve tended to find that I eat more one day and less the next… so maybe I eat two days food over three days or something like that. I was starving Monday and Tuesday and I felt like there wasn’t enough food but today I’ve had two coffees with cream and and egg and I don’t feel hungry at all so it’s a bit odd.
I’m trying to listen to my stomach because I’m greedy at heart naturally… :joy:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #23

You are probably right in your observation. One study I read demonstrated that caloric intake didn’t match expenditure very well in a given 24-hour period, but matched quite precisely when averaged over seven or eight days.

#24

We surely doesn’t want the same amount all the time… In good cases things get balanced out (it usually happens to me in extreme cases. like, 1000 kcal or 3000+ kcal in the previous day) but it’s not always the case. Once I had a month when I ate 1000 kcal more than before every day without any reason I could see… Normally I am more normal but one even may have weeks and months when they eat less or more… (The mysterious “I can’t really eat in summer” folks… My body wants exactly the same type and amount of food in summer and winter and my family members are the same so it’s especially odd to me…) A drastic woe change may confuse the body, I know that but there are many factors… Stress, sleep, mood…
Many of us have some rare super hungry or super satiated days too… Life is like that I guess.

Until you don’t see anything extreme, let these fluctuations happen :slight_smile: I experienced that a single day can be all over the place, the average of multiple days should be in a smaller range… It’s true for various things, not just the energy intake. Though there are some “rules” for separate days too and they rarely get broken.

I don’t know what was the time for you, I learned I can’t say very much about my day until bedtime (unless I ate a ton way earlier)… There can be huge fluctuations during the day but they may get balanced out later.
But if not, the next day. But that’s rare for me.