How do you deal with being nicknamed due to your fussiness on the food sold in the restaurant?

(karen) #21

I totally agree with this when eating at people’s homes. You didn’t hire your friends and family to cook for you or be your dieticians. Worst case, enjoy the company and eat later.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #22

Billy Crystal, not Michael. I love the scene where she orders in great detail while he looks on in amazement. The “I’ll have what she’s having” scene is pretty great as well.

Cloudy, if your eating from food stalls a lot, meat on a stick, should work, vary the meats. If you are eating somewhere that you are not sure about their stuff a meat on the stick dish would have very minimal of anything that isn’t ideal. If sauces are involved, just ask for them on the side.

If you are not diabetic, most things should not be to bad for you. Just think protein and veggies, no sauces.

(Raj Seth) #23

Without the pejorative overtones associated with “nutty dogma” (yes I saw you quoted it), I agree entirely. It is a level low enough that ketosis is almost guaranteed, while being permissive enough that the unsuspecting layperson doesn’t feel :bacon: :cut_of_meat: overwhelmed :meat_on_bone: :poultry_leg: without access to their lifelong :cucumber: trusty :broccoli:

Never mind that, IMHO, it’s simpler to just go
carnivore/ bacon only etc., and maybe even get slightly quicker results, 20 gm remains an arbitrary number. While I can’t even start to guess at the range, I have definitely read of some remaining in lipolysis even at 100 gm. I don’t even know my own limit - I just go single digits or 0 carbs and don’t eat for days - so I am too “nutty” anyway😀

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #24

I hate making a fuss, so I try to guess from the menu what will be the most keto and ask the waiter to hold the carb items. Obviously, ordering “fettucine Alfredo, hold the pasta” is pointless, but I often order steak and eggs and ask not to be served the potatoes and the toast (steak and eggs is a breakfast meal in the U.S.). If I order an entree such as roast beef, I ask for no potatoes or rice, and pick a vegetable such as broccoli. In the places where I eat, some dishes come with pasta on the side, and the restaurant is usually quite happy to substitute a salad for the pasta. I always ask for chunky blue cheese dressing to keep my fat up, and I try hard not to obsess about the fact that the dressing was probably made with soybean oil, being a commercial product. A steak restaurant near us serves fatty rib-eye steaks, and I get mushrooms and onion as the vegetable, a salad with blue cheese dressing, and if I want a starter, they serve a great appetizer of mushrooms topped with two kinds of tasty cheeses. No, it’s not perfect, but it works for me, if I’m careful with my meals at home.

(Ken) #25

Nutty Keto really refers to people practicing Dogma rather than Science. Mainly, it’s due to a lack of awareness of the very adaptive nature of both lipolysis and lipogenesis, as well as the metabolic benefits of periodic, limited Carb intake within an overall fat based, lipolytic nutritional pattern.

It’s the expressions of false, dogmatic virtue that both amuse and somewhat disturb me. People expressing guilt over minor Carb consumption, as well as describing themselves as “good” merely because they’ve been adhering to dogma for an extended time.

As metabolic derangement decreases, limited Carb consumption becomes more important. But, it often occurs when people have been the most successful. A stall or plateau causes people to double down on the dogma, rather than adding in some limited, periodic carbs for metabolic reasons.

You can consume literally hundreds of grams of carbs on one day and then be lipolytic the next. At least once derangement is reduced or eliminated.

(Raj Seth) #26

I dont get what you mean there? Would you flesh that out a skosh pls

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #27

PaulL, I do similar stuff when eating out. One of the breakfast places we go to now knows I will remove the English muffin from my Eggs Benedict, so they now just leave it off my order automatically. I also get sliced tomatoes instead of the hash browns, so they do those as well without me even asking. And my Mexican place just subs extra salad on any order I place, omitting the rice and beans.

(Ken) #28

Primarily insulin and leptin resistance, but resistance of other anorexigenic hormones as well. Take insulin for example. Once insulin resistance drops so does hyperinsulinemia, allowing a much more limited insulin response, enabling the limited carbs (in the form of glucose) to penetrate the cellular membrane and be used as fuel. As opposed to the resistive, lipogenic secretion that is more geared to fat storage due to the larger insulin response and the limited leptin effects (lack of satiety) that encourages the eating.

The key is understanding that it take a real Carb based pattern to go back into lipogenesis. Just like when people begin, you have to deplete glycogen first to become lipolytic. You have to refill it again to become lipogenic. It between those two states, carbs can be beneficial for metabolic issues.

(Raj Seth) #29

I’m sorry Ken, but I still don’t get why carbs can be beneficial for metabolic issues. I follow the description s and analysis, but am not following the conclusion that one needs to reintroduce carbs for metabolic health…

(Ken) #30

Well, for some people it may not, even though even people like the Inuit have been found to have eaten carbs seasonally. Believe what you want, but my experience as well as others I’ve advised have found that limited carbs are beneficial metabolically, normalizing energy balances, preventing stalls, and eliminating the need for fasting. It’s been known for nearly two decades that appropriate Carb intake mitigates the starvation response in non deranged people.

(Robert C) #31

I think Mark Sisson lays it out pretty well here:

In a nutshell - his argument is that if you are generally healthy (not on keto for epilepsy control or some other specific health benefit) - it may be a good idea to cycle in and out of keto.

It is basically a cost benefit argument. Keto is not “free”. Family and social pressures exist. Long trips to far away places happen. A wonderful bounty of inexpensive fruits (that we used to fatten on planning for winter) becomes available during the hottest time of the year. Etc…

And, of course, it would be better to plan on cycling than it would be to plan on being a 100% hard-headed keto WOE’er that falls off the wagon after 6 months and quits forever.

I cannot find a strong technical argument for cycling (other than humans have never done keto continuously before) but, I can see what he is saying - grab the big share of the benefit at the smaller cost might be worth examining.

(Katie) #32

Keto Connect made a YouTube video testing various lower-carbohydrate beers.

(Katie) #33

I have called ahead during the day to discuss how things are prepared. I have asked if it will be possible to make substitutions. Then, during the ordering at the meal, I say “I talked to your chef earlier and…”.

(karen) #34

I’m kind of a purist and sort of a hard ass. If I’m going to do something, I want the info on how to do it best. I got disillusioned with Valter Longo because he was so focused on how to “fast mimic” … from what I eventually deduced, his research actually showed that water fasting is definitely more effective - it’s just harder. I feel like Mark Sisson’s argument is similar here - Keto is more effective, it’s just more expensive. I do agree that it’s nice to know how to ease up when you need a break from the hard work (or the financial sacrifice), without undoing everything you’ve accomplished, I just have doubts when someone starts focusing on why the amended diet is better, when that “better” has nothing to do with results.

ETA: I do think that seasonal eating may have a place in the diet from an evolutionary perspective; the only people who would have had a seasonally identical diet were close to the equator and eating fruit anyway.

(Robert C) #35

I think the similar situation is with hourly work. For example, you are in your 20’s and want a car and a house - the only way is to work 60 hours a week. You do that for years, car is paid off, house now only requires a 40 hour work week (i.e. your weight is where you want it and your blood numbers are good). No one would say a 50 or 40 hour per week income is as good as a 60 hour per week income (just as no one is saying seasonal fruit or a long trip all over Europe is healthier than keto). It is just that sticking (unnecessarily) to 60 hours per week might not be the best way to finish up your life.

#36

As a hipster,I would be delighted if they gave me nickname becose of my hardcore obscure non-mainstream diet,it would mean they noticed I am different,nothing worse than being a normie.

(Justin Jordan) #37

Swift and blinding violence.

(Robert C) #38

Lots of people go way way way out of their way to not upset anyone that handles their food for any reason (their revenge could be difficult to detect). If they are willing to give you a nickname, who knows what else they’re willing to do?

(karen) #39

I’m 55 and I kinda look at my life as having gotten the car and the house and then neglecting to get insurance before a tornado of stress-related bad eating habits overwhelmed me. Or maybe not a complete tornado, but an annoying flood that’s done enough damage that I feel compelled to roll up my sleeves and fix things Now. I see your point though, if you’ve basically achieved the results you want, why go on hammering at top speed.

(Robert C) #40

I want to counterweight my argument. I am 55 also. Nothing is clear cut anymore. I don’t hope to dampen anything.