This is a valid approach. One could also refer to the fact that the “CICO” acceptance over the past few decades has been accompanied by the ever-growing epidemic of obesity, etc.
Fast Answer to the CICO Contingent
Daves_Not_Here
#103
@Baytowvin - I can’t tell if you think that is a good or bad thing, but I think if we aim to persuade, it helps to acknowledge points of agreement.
On the other hand, if we wish to alienate the other party or be thought a loon (which I admit I sometimes take perverse pleasure in doing), then all we need to do is to ask them to suspend common sense and accept an absurdity. And to say, “calories don’t matter” is to do just that.
Between us Keto girls, we know what it means to say calories don’t matter – it reflects our attitude towards the futility of counting calories. But for the uninitiated, it reflects the ravings of a lunatic. Of course calories matter. 100% of people who fast for 30 days will lose weight. Why? Because calories matter!
Now, calories may matter differently than many people think. Counting calories may be an unsustainable approach to long term weight maintenance. CICO may be an oversimplified and flawed model of energy balance. But to catagorically assert that calories don’t matter at all is to relegate thyself to loon-status along with flat-earthers, numerologists, and vegan activists. Not exactly the most attractive folks anyone would emulate.
My final point to this interminable lecture – we are already suspected to be loons – spouting nonsense like calories don’t matter just confirms it. If we hope to persuade, we need to polish up our speech.
kib
(karen)
#104
Definitely agree with this, whatever “snappy line” I go with, it will have to start with a rational point of agreement, i.e. "well yes, calories do matter, but … "
Baytowvin
(TJ Borden)
#105
Sorry, the tone in my head was obviously positive, but you can’t hear that. 
Definitely positive. It’s jusy as you said. If someone is defensive and/or ready to argue, the quickest way to disarm them is to agree with them. It instantly takes the wind out of their sails.
RobC
(Robert C)
#106
I think it is a hearts versus minds thing.
Your argument is correct but it is easily refuted with “people are weak willed – they haven’t really been doing CICO” (which I don’t agree with – I think it is more the case that people have average will power which is corroded in this SAD/easy to get/cheap food environment). Anyway, it is a winning of the minds argument – as are many in this thread. To me CICO is just too intuitive to be easily put down this way.
I was shooting for a winning for the hearts argument. If huge companies are spending money trying to convince you that their seemingly addictive products are okay for consumption – that maybe you should have an emotional response to being lied to for profit.
OldDoug
(Doug)
#107
Right on, Robert - hit it from all sides. 
This is a great thread. I think CICO “works” for a group of people, most of whom are metabolically healthy and homeostatic - diet never gets to be a problem for them in the first place. There is also a smaller contingent who work at it, with good results.
Regardless of how much will power one has, once one is insulin resistant and overweight, it really gets to be a vicious cycle, and in that SAD/easy to get/cheap food environment you mention, one’s will power will be diluted with the increasing hormonal struggle.
With Karen’s original question, surely it greatly matters who one is talking to. If it’s somebody who is healthy and happy at their weight, who really hasn’t struggled with weight gain or other metabolic problems, that’s one thing, and I don’t see much reason to try and disprove CICO for them.
If it’s somebody who has gained weight, tried many diets without long-term success, then they ought to read this thread. In the short-term, for a fast answer, one probably needs a good read on the personality of the individual, to figure out how to hit them with an answer.
Daves_Not_Here
#108
@kib and @Baytowvin - one more thought, and then I’ll stop using this forum to procrastinate from work.
When I speak to skeptics, I try to join them in their disbelief. I can’t believe this is actually working. Or that it took me so long to discover. Or I can’t believe how I lose weight eating bacon and ribeyes. Or, I was bracing myself waiting for blood work and was amazed when, after 10 years, I’m no longer pre-diabetic and my cholesterol profile is crazy good. Or, how I can cycle 60 miles fasted. WTF?!? This is Crazy!
Daves_Not_Here
#109
@RobC - I halfway agree with you – beyond the food manufacturers, we also have a healthcare establishment that directly financially benefits from the obesity/diabetes/heart disease epidemic to the tune of an incremental $500B hard-dollars per year. And the “experts” in this field already have the evidence and education to understand what drives obesity, but have no financial incentive to do so. Per Upton Sinclair, “It’s difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it”
However, the “halfway” part is this – about half the country is skeptical of the notion of large-scale, profit-motivated, malevolent conspiracies by governments and corporations. If you broach that “greedy capitalists are lying to you for profit” to them, not only do you NOT win their hearts, you achieve the opposite – they see you as a conspiracy loon or worse, a Democrat.
@OldDoug - to the “obese people are weak-willed” argument, I always ask, “How to you explain the obesity epidemic in toddlers? Did you go to the gym when you were 9 months old? Are today’s toddlers too lazy to toddle?”
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#110
Fast answer: ”CICO” a waste of time! Turning a simple hunt and gather eating thing into navigating the space shuttle?
kib
(karen)
#112
@Daves_Not_Here, wanted to thank you for this. I think my Mom and I have our biggest clash over the idea that I “know it all”. I don’t know it all, but I make my best effort to learn! Not sure why this is such a problem, considering how much education was pushed on me. What was I supposed to do, learn only long enough to get the nice report card and be a good little Suzee Kreemcheeze and forget it all again?
Well anyway, this “I’m amazed, it’s so crazy” approach worked like a charm. Thank you !!!