Fast Answer to the CICO Contingent

(karen) #61

Well that is definitely true. It doesn’t apply to the original question of how to propose to a CICO believer that (possibly) a keto diet actually allows you to eat more calories without having them show up on your hips, but sure, if the debate is over which WOE is the best one, the best one is the one that you can live with.

(Alison Romero) #62

You just described me.

#63

That’s fine, but pre-Keto, even when I was bursting, I was still hungry. Not satisfied.

I run out of food on my plate. What Keto has done for me is to give me the willpower to not go and fill up the plate again. But if I kept a bag of sunflower seeds within easy reach for snacking, it’ll be gone by the end of the evening.

(Raj Seth) #64

Oh WOW. I’m a gonna add that to my vocabulary!!
:+1::+1::+1:

(Karl) #65

image
image.jpg695×418 65.8 KB

(Alec) #66

That reminds me, have you finished the painting yet? :laughing::+1:

(TJ Borden) #67

No… :pensive:

(MooBoom) #68

I’ve seen your answers on a few threads now and you always find a BRILLIANT way of explaining complex concepts in easy to understand terms. Bravo. :raised_hands:

(Jay AM) #69

Well thank you! :blush: I’m glad you got some value from my information and explanations.

(Sarah Slancauskas) #70

Thanks for this! Your examples have helped me understand things a bit more clearly.

(Justin Jordan) #71

Yeah, it is.

it might not be for YOU. But either I stop eating when I decide I have had enough or I eat until I can’t get any more down my throat. For some percentage of people satiety is a unicorn. Why it pains people in this forum so greatly that this could be so is something of a mystery to me.

(MooBoom) #72

@Justin_Jordan
Is it possible your satiety cues aren’t kicking in? That is a real dilemma for a lot of people. For the rest of us who are lucky enough not to grapple with that, satiety =6 as per the below.

image
2D82EDF9-6C8D-4901-A8BF-835E275DF6A4.jpeg750×637 198 KB

(Karl) #73

I think it’s one of those things where you can’t grasp a feeling you’ve never truly felt. I liken it to clinical depression. Sure - everyone gets “the blues”, but not everyone has experienced the pain, misery and inexplicable anguish associated with clinical-grade major Depression. But since people get “depressed” all the time, they associate “the blues” with “a major psychiatric emergency” and tend to give it the same “weight” (or lack thereof, and just tell people “jeez, stop being such a downer”).

The way “satiety” happens for me seems to be similar to a gas tank with a sticky float gauge. I’m not an expert on cars, but I did have this car once where if I parked it at a certain incline, the float in the tank would measure a certain level of fuel - but then it would “stick” there, and register the same amount of gas until I drove it around normally for a while. After a while it would finally register the actual level of fuel. I eventually got the fuel tank replaced and that solved the issue. Sadly, I can’t do that for my satiety signaling :slight_smile:

Still, my satiety signal seems to work similar to this - I may eat a very “appropriate” amount of food - but because my “float gauge” is somehow stuck, I have to stop, wait around a little, and then see if the float finally registers the correct level of satiety. I can completely believe that some people might not get this signal at all, and just continue to eat. But again, how do you feel something you may have never felt in your life?

I suspect this kind of poor “satiety signaling” in some people might actually be part of the reason people get obese to begin with. I won’t pretend to be an expert on it, but based on all the things I’m reading about ghrelin, leptin, etc - it seems like there’s some kind of association there. Just like people have individual tolerances for pain, so might they have differing tolerances towards satiety.

(TJ Borden) #74

Well then I apologize, that must be miserable to constantly stop yourself from eating when you’re still starving.

(Robert C) #75

Thanks for supplying the scale but, even that does not capture the satiety issues. People are not just eating by starting at a 2 or 3 (Ravenous/Hungry) on the scale and them moving up to 6 (Satisfied) unless they are eating a single regular whole food (just raw almonds without salt, just grilled chicken without spices). If they did, they would probably get bored, feel they’ve had enough - 6 is good.

Instead, people will sabotage themselves in several different ways. In SAD it is appetizers - which might take you from 4 or 5 (Mild Hunger/Neutral) down to 2 (Ravenous). Throw on that dessert you were sure you couldn’t even fit in your body - first sweet bite moves you from 9 (Overfull) down to 3 (Hungry) and you finish the whole thing.

For keto it looks a little different - maybe its keeping your favorite roasted/salted nuts around, maybe it is overly spicing your food, maybe it is combinations - great salad dressing and lots of steak with fat bombs. That kind of combination will have you reopening the leftovers (that you just packed away for tomorrow) in minutes. Going down these routes can also move satiety into the unreachable zone (especially that harmless - per keto - artificially sweetened fat bomb bouncing you from sweet to salty). An idea would be to try breakfast as just sauteed arugula with BPC and dinner is just steak - make it boring, less spicy and see if satiety comes any sooner.

(Mark Rhodes) #76

I point out that 325 million Americans following that advice have all gotten fat. Before they go further could they explain this…

  1. They all lie about doing CICO
  2. only 1% actually follow CICO- the rest are lazy
  3. CICO is wrong.

If they don’t answer C, they really do not want answers they want authoritarian dogma.

(linda) #77

Since being on Keto for 11 months I have found I am never hungry and never feel full-so I need to be aware of my calories or portion control - so the conventional CICO may not apply but calories are another gauge like insulin or ketone testing. I think leptin and ghrelin hormones that typically regulate appetite get effected by KETO and -at lest for me- are no longer useful. The other factors - cutting out carbs reduces the unmanageable desire to binge- but I can binge on butter!! The formula of fat to satiety is tough since I don’t trust my satiety cues. Another odd thing i hear is if people don’t lose weight fast enough - this forum recommends upping your fats - which is another easy statement but may deter your body from using the fat on your body to using the fat you are eating – thus perpetuating the slow fat loss. Ugh - sometime I just get overwhelmed with all this!!

(LeeAnn Brooks) #78

This is done typically when someone states a calorie consumption that places them in metabolic starvation mode.

(Bunny) #79

Some peeps doing keto like to add processed sugars and foods as a carb allowance. For me, a little fruit and freshly milled grain/baked bread and starchy stuff like potatoes is ok on Keto!

CICO Diet: Does Counting Calories Really Work for Sustained Weight Loss?

Downsides/Problems with the CICO Diet

  1. Weight loss may not be sustainable
  2. Focus on calories, not nutrients
  3. Doesn’t consider other healthy weight loss factors

Potential Benefits of the CICO Diet

  1. Can promote weight loss
  2. Losing weight benefits other aspects of health
  3. Flexible and easy to follow

image

(John) #80

It is pretty simple in my mind, especially on the internet to show.
Type 1 diabetics make no insulin and store no fat, they could eat 50k calories a day and could not gain weight because insulin is what stores that excess as fat.

Calories ONLY matter to the extent that they affect your hormones.

image

Edit to add that I have heard on a few podcasts now of T1s messing with their insulin in a bid to stay skinny, very dangerous.