Even moderate portions of red meat can cause cancer, study finds

[Bellyman]

As taboo as this subject may be, isn’t there the potential for some really good studies among prison populations? I’m not suggesting torture in any sense of the word. I’m even thinking totally voluntary.

Thing of it is, a prisoner is captive and eats what they’re presented or they don’t eat. Wouldn’t it be fairly easy to set up some voluntary test groups where the inputs were monitored in real time with real data, and NOT food questionaires? I mean, seriously, how would you feel about being offered a good keto diet while being in prison, a place where you were going to be anyway, as a reward for being a part of a study? There could be other groups, all of them voluntary. But as long as there is some type of reward, even if only that they knew the food would be really good, don’t you think there would be some potential there for good data?

Just asking… (and never having been imprisoned, I am not knowledgeable in a lot of things related.)

[Bellyman]

It’s worth considering that the SDA folks have a belief that meat, caffeine, and other things make people masturbatory lusty beasts, prone to hot tempers and other acts of ungodliness. Holding these beliefs, they have built a “health ministry” to make the world more SDA like, and less meat eaty. There are many ways that they have pushed this health ministry, from Kellogg’s grains to studies pushing meat alternatives, influencing dietary guidelines and industry… and so on.

LeCheffre, that was quite the mouthful! I can’t say I’ve ever seen it stated quite like that but I can’t disagree with any of it.

Some of you might know that when I first joined here, I was an SDA. Did any of you notice the “was”? I hope so. I was born and raised, steeped in it. Finally said, “Enough!” a few months back and decided I needed to leave that denomination behind. There is definitely a dark side that starts at the top and runs deep and I just couldn’t, in good conscience, be a part of it any longer. There are better places for me to be…

[MarkGossage]

Springmann and Key are both vegan… Springmann was the author of the “tax meat and save the world” paper. Both dangerous people and both in LEAP

[LeCheffre]

Brian,

I am sure that there are many, many good people in the SDA. I am also sure that the various folks who built the health ministry had good intentions. We all know what they say about the destination of the road paved with good intentions… I think the evidence is now out there where they could take a serious look at whether meat is a problem, but I think the business interests of SDA members in the US and abroad might not be interested in taking a serious look.

“Men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one.”

I’m not intending to slag SDA. But really, broadly insidious.

[Bellyman]

I’m not intending to slag SDA. But really, broadly insidious.

Insidious is actually a very appropriate word.

Honestly, I think many SDAs mean well. And some of what they offer is good. Seriously, drinking clean water, getting some exercise, getting out in the fresh air and sunshine, getting proper rest, avoiding smoking, I mean who’s gonna argue with that? But they have to keep adding stuff to it… and ultimately, they undo a lot of the good things with a lot of fanaticism, on several levels.

For a long time, I had hoped that they would follow the lead of another denomination (that interestingly started at around the same time in history with a number of the same people) that finally decided to scrap the insanity and start over. Unfortunately, they continue to double down with their “historic” perspective, at least at top levels, and tend to look backwards and spend money on theologians that they think can somehow justify their historic positions. Uugh!!!

There are many good people among them, as there are in numerous other cults. It can all look pretty attractive on the surface. Many even do a lot of good things in the community. Maybe some never go deeper than that and can be happy there. I couldn’t. I’m not too good at ignoring bad stuff that bubbles up to the surface and am more offended than I used to be about the idea of being associated with (and supporting) the garbage mixed in.

Anyway, just sharing from my personal perspective.

[LeCheffre]

Won’t save you. 100% of people who breath in oxygen die too.

As do 100% of people who stop breathing.

[PaulL]

Don’t even get me started on the dangers of hydrogen monoxide!

[OgreZed]

Don’t even get me started on the dangers of hydrogen monoxide!

Ahem. You mean dihydrogen monoxide?

[cervyn]

don’t you think there would be some potential there for good data

This would never be approved by the IRB I am thinking. Also even if it was the prison population as a sample would not be considered representative

[Helen_Taylor]

A high red meat diet contributes to bowel cancer. Food high in vegetables negates this by replacement only.

Not to mention the environment - to get rid of those methane farts from cattle, we should eat less of them. I’m in the UK and from the UK and I understand that attitudes are a little different in the US, but this is one world and we all live on it.

[CrackerJax]

I had similar concerns when I was new to this forum, but there is a brilliant thread titled “rattle your pitchforks and say yes 2 meat”. I was also directed to the film “The Magic Pill” that explains our ecosystem.
The research certainly opened my eyes to the issues that concern you.

[matt]

Meat does not contribute to bowel cancer. Cows farts are not really an issue. Pedantic but they burp up most of the methane everyone is talking about.

[Helen_Taylor]

I didn’t say that meat contributes to bowel cancer - I said that a diet very high in red meat does. And there’s lots of empirical evidence, I’m afraid. Cow farts are indeed an environmental issue, as well as the burps. They produce a huge amount of methane, that potent greenhouse gas and not many these days see green fields where they fart and burp less.

[carolT]

I’ve merged the meat-cancer posts into this topic on same.

You might want to give Peter Ballerstedt’s opinions on cows and the environment a read or a listen.

[PaulL]

I didn’t say that meat contributes to bowel cancer - I said that a diet very high in red meat does

I wold like to see some study data on this point. This is opposite to my current understanding. Just for starters, it is highly unlikely that the diet on which the human race evolved could be cancerous. Secondly, Nina Teicholz and Dr. Georgia Ede have both critiqued the IARC report claiming that red meat causes cancer. The fact that the IARC never issed the promised paper detailing the evidence on which they claimed to be basing their conclusions tends to indicate that they know they are on shaky ground.

Likewise, I encourage you to take a look at Peter Ballerstedt’s lectures on the sustainability of ruminant agriculture. He deals with the matter of methane from cattle and puts it into the context of all greenhouse gas emissions. You might be surprised at his data.

My conclusion is that there is fairly strong evidence that the opposition to red meat is not based on science but is the result of a prejudice arising from other grounds. I use the word “prejudice” advisedly, in the sense that red meat has been judged bad a priori, and then justifications have been sought to dicourage the eating of it.

[FrankoBear]

This podcast sorts out the farting cow concerns. It explains the volatility of the methane and how ruminants are part of the carbon cycle, which is different to unlocking carbon from sequestered fossil fuels.

As for red meat diets and colon cancer. The most recent report was the WHO report that was demonstrated to be bad scientific reporting including insignificant risk and obfuscation of relative risk to absolute risk. It was another tutorial in how to interpret a scientific report to get a more accurate result, opposite to mainstream media and plant based diet promotion.

[MarkGossage]

I said that a diet very high in red meat does

Nope

Cow farts are indeed an environmental issue

Nope

Next?

[carolT]

I want to reply that it’s good we slaughtered all those fart-producing bison and planted corn in the former grasslands, but that would be the evil bitch in me talking.

[Alecmcq]

I didn’t say that meat contributes to bowel cancer - I said that a diet very high in red meat does.

Not quite. This is what you said.

A high red meat diet contributes to bowel cancer

Nonetheless, can you please provide that evidence so that we can understand its efficacy?

[OgreZed]

As for red meat diets and colon cancer. The most recent report was the WHO report that was demonstrated to be bad scientific reporting including insignificant risk and obfuscation of relative risk to absolute risk. It was another tutorial in how to interpret a scientific report to get a more accurate result, opposite to mainstream media and plant based diet promotion.

Regarding relative risk…

When I looked up a few studies after the horrendous What the Health, I found the study I think they were citing for the 20% increase in colorectal cancer. The results indicated a change from 5 deaths per 1000 to 6 deaths per 1000, between those that ate the least processed meats and those that ate the most processed meats. Nothing about red meat, just processed meats.

The reason I’m on keto is to control my blood sugar (T2D) and my hunger (morbid obesity), so even if I loaded up only on processed meats and increased my chance by 1 death per 1000, I imagine I’ve reduced my risks significantly more by treating my T2D and morbid obesity. :)