Electrolyte balance, long term?

#41

Not to me :slight_smile: Okay, I only know my salt need for roasted meat and it requires the least (I think) but for 5 pounds, it’s a teaspoonful :smiley: Sea salt or pink Himalayan, doesn’t matter to me as far as I know. I probably need way more for other dishes but half a cup, I would need very many liters of water with that meat (maybe 2 big potful of Goulash soup. not keto but tasty). I don’t think we ever put a whole tablespoon of salt into our biggest dishes ever… Even if one of us fancy really salty food at the moment, we can just add later. Sometimes I want our food saltier, sometimes my SO, it varies, apparently. Probably due to our other food, my body is quite sensitive and does its best to meet its 1 teaspoon of salt per day (I rarely track my salt intake but when I do, it’s that amount, no matter my diet. well I guess it was higher on high-carb as I overate there but not by much, I could eat a ton of food without using any except a minimal amount of natural sodium).

So, sodium is fine for me. I had slight Mg problems but only on vegetarian or low-meat keto. For some reason, much meat helps just like carbs do.

(Bob M) #42

My theory is that there are probably different types of cramps with different types of solutions. I had a cramp which I thought was due to overworking (working outdoors a ton, and possibly jogging). Went from bed to my fridge, pulled out pickle juice, had some, cramp immediately stopped. It can’t be electrolyte related, as there’s no way for electrolytes to get in my blood fast enough.

This is similar to this study, where they electrically induced cramps that were immediately ameliorated by pickle juice:

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On the other hand, I’ve had some really obnoxious night-time cramps or much milder cramps in my foot while exercising in certain positions, and I think those are most likely related to not getting enough of something. When I get those, I increase my salt and magnesium content.

(E P) #43

Absolutely fascinating! Modern medicine doesn’t even know quite how pickle juice works…

On two non-consecutive days, I took 1 dose instead of 3 doses of magnesium and the peripheral neuropathy and insomnia came RIGHT back that same night. I’m no scientist, but that’s enough association/correlation for me.

By the way, most brands don’t list the elemental magnesium, just the total magnesium glycinate, which is only 14 percent Mg. I had been accidentally taking a tiny dose for a long time before I swapped to the NOW brand.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #44

Good Mg levels makes a big difference to me. I ran a thread asking ‘What type of Mg’? I still don’t fully understand what I’m doing. So as a result I take plenty and 3 different varieties.
Does the trick though.

(Ohio ) #45

I took your advice w/ Magnesium, epsom salt. Game changer here. Thanks Shinita.

#46

Hi… I’ve been suffering a lot with leg cramps specifically and mainly at nighttime. I’ve just had the most dreadful night :cry: I’m taking magnesium, have been putting a spray on when it happens, salting food lots but oh… the pain. I have just looked up Pickle juice. When you talk of that do you mean the brand of drink (didn’t even know there was one!) or something you make up? Thanks

(Ohio ) #47

no brand. There are pickle juice drinkers. I think they are even available in shots!

#48

Perfect. I will buy some today and try it.
Is this something to drink daily or just when you have cramp?

#49

Carbs let us hold onto the electrolytes, and more glycogen helps it from the cramping side of things, the water needed to pull the carbs into the muscle brings electrolytes as well.

(Ohio ) #50

I always wondered if this was the case. I’m too lazy to google to find out.

#51

I have that book and would have to agree, I think a lot if it is correct, but definitely a lot of it was a clear stretch as well.

I had another book (name escaping me) that was literally the same book, but for Iodine, I was taking 12.5mg of Iodine a day for a while (Iodoral) , and I did notice the difference, but nobody needs that much, not even close.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #52

Yeah this is interesting … I had issues on a high carb diet (T2 etc) but never had a problem with electrolyes.
Must admit I’m still messing with my levels, the standard LMNT ratio and quantity doesn’t seem to work for me. My Guts happier with double measure of Mg.
LMNT’s 5:1 sodium-to-potassium seems OK but 60mg of magnesium doesn’t seem enough … no matter which form it takes.
And mg (microgram) and mg (magnesium) adds to the confusion lol

#53

I’ve landed on Genius’ Electrolyte blend, not as crazy strong as LMNT, but still dosed very well and cheaper. Before I found that I was using True Nutritions’s Electrolyte blend which is a 100% clone of LMNT, just way cheaper.

(Edith) #54

I was trying the zero sugar Liguid IV for a bit since it uses allulose. Unfortunately, it has B vitamins in it and B vitamins make me mean. I just have to stick with my own little NaCL/KCl mix.

#55

Haha, that’s a weird one. So if you drank a 5hr people might die :rofl:

What’s that 20,000% of DV? WATCH OUT!

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #56

:rofl:

(Edith) #57

Interestingly, I looked it up online and it is not my imagination. I think because of my diet, my B-vitamin stores are already topped off and adding in a supplement causes an overdose.

And yes, I can’t even imagine how I would feel after a five hour energy drink. :exploding_head:

(Susan) #58

@Pjam Magnesium oxide is best if you’re constipated, as little gets absorbed into the blood stream. Mg citrate and Mg glycinate both are forms that are well absorbed and therefore the forms that help most for muscle cramps at night. Yes, VERY painful.

@lfod14 It’s actually insulin that signals the kidneys to retain sodium, but eating carbs means you’re releasing insulin. Since insulin is the ‘retain fat’ hormone, on keto, the whole point is to release as little insulin as possible. The side effect is that the kidneys end up releasing more sodium into the urine. This may be true for the other important electrolytes (magnesium and potassium), but I’m not sure.

It’s much easier for the kidneys to dump sodium (and all electrolytes/minerals) than it is to retain sodium, so overdoing the sodium is much less problematic than eating to little. One woman a couple of years ago shared on this forum how she just added salt to her taste and thought it would be enough. She ended up fainting and in the ER found out that her sodium was too low.

The advice to eat a low sodium diet was from an era when we knew that high blood pressure was bad, but didn’t have any meds to help. Researchers knew that eating a low sodium diet only helped 25% of the men (cuz they only tested men) regulate their blood pressure. It got pushed so much because there wasn’t anything else that they could recommend. Now that we’ve got meds that help everyone, restricting sodium isn’t important, especially not on keto.

#59

I’ll agree with most of that, except the “retain fat” hormone. Insulin is a storage / uptake hormone. Doesn’t matter whether it’s fat or not. When we intentionally use Insulin in bodybuilding, you can use it to get freakishly lean, way more so than you could without it. It’s also the reason people go on GLP-1’s which creates near immediate insulin sensitivity and makes you secrete (more) Insulin when that response comes, the end result is fat loss and lowering of your A1C, not a rise.

The mindset of Insulin equaling storing fat with no context to it is literally the same exact thing as the debunked mainstream view of dietary fat making you fat and clogging your arteries. They took something that is true in one context, conveniently the one they cared about, but then blindly applied that across the board.

Insulin is only “evil” in keto circles, despite everybody even in the keto world being very aware that you’re literally dead without it. The context matters. Insulin isn’t bad, chronically elevated insulin is.

When I switched from standard keto after 4yrs, I went to Targeted Keto, then Cyclical Keto, then I started doing a hybrid of the both of them, so carbs pre/post workout, and reloads when needed. Since doing that my muscle mass has gone back up to where it was, broke fat loss plateaus, and brough my bodyfat from around 14% at the time and last check I was at 9.5%. That’s all happened since more carbs/insulin used strategically. Also maintaining my A1C while doing that. Coming from a 300lb diabetic at my worst and when I started keto, that’s saying a little. I also still eat plenty of fat, can’t be healthy without it. Given that I probably still eat more fat than “normal” people do, if Insulin was all about storing fat, I’d know it.

(Susan) #60

You’re right, I was speaking lazily. I was speaking about electrolytes mainly, and insulin’s effect on the kidneys.
However, lipogenesis and suppression of lypolysis, along with absorption of glucose into cells, glycogenesis and suppression of gluconeogenesis are among of the things listed in my nursing biochemistry book for insulin.
Insulin is absolutely necessary for life (ask any type I diabetic). It’s excess of insulin that’s unhealthy. I was like everyone else on the standard American diet (SAD) with frequent sweet snacks between 3 meals. I doubt I ever released glucagon before going on keto. Towards the end, I even had a snack before bed and at 2am. Now I’m OMAD and happy with it. It seems like you’ve got your diet really well dialed in.