have you seen this video Dr Berry on why calories don’t matter.
life should be eat til you get real nourishment for your body to heal from all the nasty crazy chemical foods out there.
eat til satisfied.
put it all back in balance ya know. Anyone can cut kcals and ‘diet’. Everyone here has done that I think LOL but there is a more natural better approach.
here’s the vid. when ya got time to check it out. might help you some or answer some questions for you?
The longer you are on keto, the more calories matter.
I don’t think there are more than a handful of people on this forum who actually believe that calories don’t matter. There are also only a handful of people who believe that calories are as simple as CICO and that hormonal mechanisms play no role.
There is however a lively debate on how much calories matter, or put differently, the relative importance of hormonal regulation and CICO. Personally, my experience is that if if you stay on keto for a few months and heal your metaoblism, CICO becomes much more predictive, because your body is working properly.
If you have a thyroid condition, that’s less true, but 99% of people on this forum can heal their metabolism with keto in under 6 months. Ergo, for 99% of people here, the longer you are on keto, the more calories matter.
If that’s not true, it means that keto doesn’t work, and it doesn’t “heal” the body hormonally.
Really good question! Actually yes I have - meals with fish don’t seem to have the same effect. When I eat fish it’s usually a smaller portion than the amount of steak I’d eat, and I’d generally have the fish as part of a more veg-rich scenario. If I’m having steak, it’s generally with mushrooms, cream and Stilton.
The fat aspect is an interesting one. The more fat I have, it seems the later and longer-lasting the spike.
No i meant 260g of protein. I was just super hungry and not getting satiated. I ended up eating 2 half pound bacon cheeseburgers for dinner.
I have heard from lots of T1’s on the diabetes.co.uk/forum that fat can delay the spike and lower but prolong it… I just wondered about the fish element as that should really cause a greater spike than meat protein wise.
What wonderful and confusing things our bodies are… I guess a matched protein dose meat against fish would be an interesting test.
How do you come up with that figure?
I ate 600g of pork chop meat yesterday which is only 111g of protein so you would have had to have a lot to get to 260g protein.
Those numbers don’t add up. In beef, cheese and bacon, there’s about 7 grams of protein in one ounce of food. 260 grams of protein (divided by 7) is 37.1 ounces or 2lbs 5oz of meat and cheese. One pound of burger would need another pound of cheese and a few ounces of bacon to get you to 260g of protein.
A pound of burgers would be 112 g of protein. Adding a couple of ounces of cheese and bacon still only gets you to around 140 -150 gr of protein.
Where did you get the number 260g of protein from? You might be eating quite a bit less protein than you think you are.
Yes - I find the delay frustrating but hey, that’s why I’ve got a daily alarm set for 2am so I can head off any spikes! My worst spikes are steak + a creamy pudding - and they tend to start their effect at 2am.
I used to hang out a lot on that forum too. You’re the one who first got me lurking on this one!
There’s an easy way to test whether or not protein causes your BG to rise. It’s probably a good idea to fast for a day in order to get yourself down to whatever your baseline BG, insuline, ketosis is. But it’s likely not necessary, as long as you keep in mind that you’re not starting from your baseline, so the results will be higher than otherwise.
Using unflavoured gelatin, make a cup of ‘concentrated jello’. Use 20 grams (or 6 1/2 teaspoons) of gelatin to make approximately a cup (or a small bowl) of jello. The resulting ‘jello’ will contain a bit more than 17 grams of collagen protein. You can wait for it to jell or just drink it while it’s still warm in solution.
Measure your BG prior to eating the jello. Measure again every 30 minutes for at least 4 hours. Let us know what happens.
PS: do I need to say to use only gelatin, no sweetener or flavour of any description.
I’d maybe measure for up to 8 hours - my spikes after crazy amounts of protein tend to start after 6 hours and continue longer than that, often despite exogenous insulin (hit and miss at the best of times, frankly!).
But if you’re measuring the effect of protein on blood glucose and you’re not diabetic, would that even show on a blood glucose test? Sorry if this sounds naive, but doesn’t insulin get secreted to deal with it?
I’ve looked at carb manager before and found some things that are really off the wall. I think they had black coffee as 3 grams of carbs.
Back starting from about '97 and for a few years, I followed the Zone Diet. One thing Dr. Sears did that lodged in my brain was to use standard food exchanges which give you standard block sizes. One block of protein was 7 grams of protein because that’s in one ounce of lean meats, cheese and so much more. One block of carbs was 9 grams NET and one fat block was 1.5 grams fat. His idea was you made meals by mixing and matching blocks. Small people had 3 block meals, bigger people had 4 block meals. That number of blocks of protein, carb, and fat. It automatically turned out to be 40-30-30 (percent calories from carb, protein and fat).
Turns out, he borrowed that idea from the American Diabetes Association. It may be the only good thing they’ve ever done!
I find it super easy to remember 7 grams protein per ounce of meat.
Yup. That’s about right. Depends on the cut of course, but it’s a good rule of thumb.
@Snolepurd, did you eat >2lbs of meat in one day? If so, I salute you! That’s a bonafide keto/carnivore milestone, and one that you should be damn proud of! 
If there isn’t a forum badge for that yet I hope one of the mods will make one. Where is @dlc96_darren these days anyway?
One of the objectives of the test is to determine whether or not consuming pure protein will drive up BG as some have asserted. I would expect in any person with relative normal insulin response, that insulin would indeed bring down BG in a timely manner. However, by testing frequently, I think one could determine how long it takes insulin to do it’s job, if in fact BG goes up in response to protein.
I’m a type 2 diabetic, and protein will definitely drive up my fasting blood sugar…to a point.
Basically, heavy protein intake will drive my blood sugar the next day up by about thirty odd points. So if I were at 90, it’d be 120 for however long. Usually a day or so.
I’ve self experimented with this and it’s consistent even when I am keeping carbs and fat controlled as much as I can (which is about as precise as it can be) - it doesn’t appear to make any difference what kind of protein it is or what else I eat in the day.
The doesn’t appear acutely - I need roughly twelvish hours for the blood sugar rise to start.
My not backed by science explanation is that it’s not so much causing the gluconeogenesis so much as the lower intake is restricting. Once I hit the blood sugar rise threshold with protein, though, further intake doesn’t make it worse. It tops out.
Bodies are weird.
Also interesting - in fact, more so - would be the ability to determine the rise in insulin rather than blood glucose - certainly more useful for ketogenic non-diabetics wanting to be able to minimise their insulin response/demand for insulin by means of the right n=1 balance of fat, protein and carbohydrate.
Is that because you eat the protein for dinner and are then blaming dawn phenomenon on the protein intake? the 12 hours sounds a bit suspicious…
This topic again though.
It seems (from the stated experiences of many), it matters for some people & it doesn’t matter for some people. It’s like the carb limit thing, staying strictly below 20 matters for some people & going up to 30-50 is fine for some people.
We are all different. If in doubt, do a n=1 (like you have done) to figure out where you fall in.
