Diabetic Amputations: More Dangerous Than Keto? I

[AuntJane]

This is the most amazing video I’ve seen on the reversal of type 2 diabetes with keto, and it’s a doctor talking! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUuHrBwsJ2s&t=506s

[DiMo]

Have a !

[David_Stilley]

I caused my own diabetes with choices, and I can fix it with choices. Eating keto is an easy choice because it’s cheaper and it works!

This is way more truthful than blaming your shitty health conditions on being poor. Being poor doesn’t mean you have to eat crap. I live below poverty level and have for over 20 years. I spend less eating well, feel better and accept what condition my health state was before and after keto as my own doing.

Fast food, prepackaged convenience foods, junky carb heavy snacks and donuts for breakfast are not requirements for the underprivileged. I know, because I am one of them.

[Don_Q]

That lack of empathy has reached Ronald Reagan levels here.

Ouch. As recovering sugar addict and an amputee, consider the possibility that I might have some empathy, but I’m just very poor at virtue signalling.

At any rate, empathy didn’t lower my A1C. Fasting 3 days a week did. It was free. Even I could afford that. Just eating keto alone will get the job done too. It’s been cheaper for me than SAD. Keto can be simple, cheap and effective.

Having said that, both you and @PaulL do make the very good point that you need to know what your choices are in order to make them. Very few people have been taught that LCHF is the best way to tackle diabetes. That’s a huge part of the problem, and that blame lies with the FDA, big agriculture, and medical industry.

[PaulL]

I agree with almost everything in that post, but please forgive a couple of comments:

The way I look at it, I’m powerless to change big AG or pharma, but I have 100% control over what I eat.t.

I’m finding it very hard to have 100% control, because the supermarkets in my area won’t sell me what I want. I live in a mostly-white lower-to-middle-clase area, and the managers have a paternalistic view of what their customers want and should be buying. (One manager actually refused to grant my repeated requests for him to special-order pork rinds for me. He absolutely refuses to stock them.) It is surprisingly difficult to mount an expedition to the neighboring big city, with its selection of bodegas and halal shops. It would be impossible to do using public transportation, for example, anyone without a car is out of luck.

I think the extent to which I am a victim is commensurate to the ease with which I can solve the problem; in this case it’s 100% within my power, and not particularly difficult.

One factor I appear to be dealing with, and that you appear not to be, is carb cravings. I am not hungry, but I want CARBS!!! I fully expect these cravings to subside in another six or seven years, as the alcohol cravings eventually did after I stopped drinking. It’s just that waiting the cravings out is hell, and every time I give in (fortunately not disastrously, so far, but I am thinking a binge is only a matter of time, though God has so far been gracious), it only makes the cravings worse.

[Robert_Johnson]

Here’s a pre-edit . But i didnt get to finish the entire thought before the edit cane in live and cleared the rest of your text. Pretty cool frature that edit. Reached right into my phone and removed text from the screen as I was reading it!

[Bellyman]

Animal protein is expensive. And carbs are cheap. I wouldn’t argue that.

But… for those who are determined, there are ways to get bargains. If you can’t afford ribeye, you might be able to afford a sale on ground beef. I’ve gotten it for $1.49/lb. If you can’t afford the free-range chicken, you might be able to afford the leftovers in the “manager’s special” section of the meat department. I picked up three fairly large chicken legs yesterday, $3 for the package, and that was a decent amount of meat on them. (We ate them for supper last night.)

If you are closer to the country, you might be able to find a way to go in with a neighbor or friend and buy a quarter or half or even a whole beef. It’s often cheaper than buying at the grocery store.

If you’re out in the stix and have the room, you might be able to do better than you’d think having a flock of chickens, either meat or eggs or both, if you can give them enough land or grow enough feed for them that you don’t have to buy much if any at all. If you can’t, grocery stores sometimes have sales on eggs that have to be loss leaders. I saw some in a store a few days ago for something like $0.49/dozen. That’s cheap.

Anyway, if you want to eat keto, you can. It may not be as easy as falling off a log but it’s possible!

Good luck!

[Karim_Wassef]

Wow… this thread exploded… I think empathy for victims and suffering addicts is due.

When Peter cried on stage 13:30, I could feel that personal agony.

I think blame should rest with the “experts” who fail to use science to guide and educate - as well as the greedy businesses who profit off the disease and ignorance of the people - food, pharma, exercise…

Where I don’t agree is taxation or legislation to change behavior. It’s one thing to stop subsidizing corn and sugar. It’s another thing to use taxes to change consumer behavior. I lean towards individual freedoms, even if those freedoms allow people to make bad choices… that’s part of what freedom is.

[DiMo]

[quote=“Karim_Wassef, post:28, topic:85684”]It’s one thing to stop subsidizing corn and sugar. It’s another thing to use taxes to change consumer behavior.
[/quote]

Fair point, worth considering.

[DiMo]

Thanks for sharing this link to Dr. Attia’s talk. I had seen it before, but it’s well worth revisiting!

[AbsintheFairy]

The distinction is that Type I is an autoimmune disease, occurring at any stage of life, of which we don’t know the cause (could also be the result of people’s choices, who knows?)

This.

If I followed standard medical advice, I would be suffering from full-blown lupus and several other autoimmune diseases, would be on a raft of drugs with horrid side effects, and likely would be continuing to get worse. Fortunately for me, I’m stubborn, suspicious and have access to resources – including a computer and internet – to help me find my own way.

I guess you could say I made a “choice” to get better…but only because I have the opportunity and privilege to access alternative information. I would never blame people who don’t have such advantages.

[cervyn]

I think things can get confusing when we equate population health with individual health. They are not really the same thing.

As a population we have real issues that could be addressed through policy, prevention and better advice. Experts need to stop recommending diets that make people sicker or saying its’ a chronic irreversible condition that can only be managed. Policy /legislation will hopefully follow that change.

On an individual level we do have choice and responsibility. But many things can effect a person’s willingness to change and awareness is the first step. If one is so busy managing a disease and it’s effects, not to mention the rest life one may never have the bandwidth to find out there are other options. But if you see someone lose weight and get healthier you may realize that there are other options and that is a start.

One thing that has been shown over and over in behavioral studies, is that blame or shame does not motivate people to change. there is a difference between saying "your choices are bad/not serving you and here is something you could try instead’ and saying “you are a bad person for making those choices’”. The first leaves room for change, the second usually engenders a spirit of defeat and blocks change.

[Rclause]

I think that a $0.20/g tax on sugar would be an interesting start.

Using the tax code to regulate behavior will have unintended consequences. Government’s desire to spend will consume this revenue and likely none of it will actually go to pay for diabetic care or education. The other problem is where does it stop? Sure sugar is a boogeyman but do you think a carb tax will ever be levied on beloved corn or bread? A french fry tax would be next after that followed by a BMI tax. I think we would end up taking a poor person that is eating themselves to death and then tax them to death as well. I wonder if the public could be shown how bad insulin resistance is and the solution, if they would be motivated to change. I have an employee that smokes a pack a day yet has no desire to change. I suspect it is costing him $2000 or more a year. I just shake my head in disbelief.

[anon2571578]

A food/sin tax would disproportionately affect the poor. Better to just tax luxuries that only the rich can afford (or just their income in general, IDGAF) and use that for accessible healthcare instead.

[DiMo]

On an individual level we do have choice and responsibility. But many things can effect a person’s willingness to change and awareness is the first step. If one is so busy managing a disease and it’s effects, not to mention the rest life one may never have the bandwidth to find out there are other options. But if you see someone lose weight and get healthier you may realize that there are other options and that is a start.

One thing that has been shown over and over in behavioral studies, is that blame or shame does not motivate people to change. there is a difference between saying "your choices are bad/not serving you and here is something you could try instead’ and saying “you are a bad person for making those choices’”. The first leaves room for change, the second usually engenders a spirit of defeat and blocks change.

Well said!

[x-Dena-x]

BMI tax

I’d be hella poor poorer if this were the case.

[Alecmcq]

A big step towards eliminating Type II diabetes would be for the government to stop recommending a diabetes-inducing diet, stop subsidising the production of high-fructose corn syrup, and stop subsidising the growing of grains. Dr. Robert Lustig also recommends a tax on sugar-sweetened beverages. Nina Teicholz’ Nutrition Coalition is working on getting the dietary guidelines changed, and Dr. Lustig’s Eat Real organization is working on the rest. You might want to check out those two organizations and see if their programs make sense to you.

@PaulL For President!

[CrackerJax]

The fact is that the disease is perpetuated by poor dietry advice. So it is not necessarily a "choice " . I am sure people are doing their best with the information they have.
Only those who have the correct information but don’t use it, such as smokers for example, can be said to be making an informed choice.

[misterbutters]

The way I look at it, I’m powerless to change big AG or pharma, but I have 100% control over what I eat. I caused my own diabetes with choices, and I can fix it with choices. Eating keto is an easy choice because it’s cheaper and it works!

You’d better get busy then going door to door telling all of the diabetic folks your wonderful insights.

The overwhelming majority of the doctors treating them sure as heck ain’t doing it, and I don’t see them doing it in the near future, either.

Which one of you do you think the average folks with diabetes are going to believe? Their doctors, or you?

[Dipper_Actual]

I suppose the problem is that Type 2 diabetes is a voluntary disease. The only real solution is for people to take responsibility for their own health.

That’s pretty counter-revolutionary of you, comrade. We’ll see you in the re-education camps!

I think that a $0.20/g tax on sugar would be an interesting start.

You’re on to something there. If there is to be a solution from politicians, it’ll come in the form of taxes. The power to tax is the power to destroy. Unfortunately, in this case, I’m not sure the sugar lobby, and other plant based concerns will do anything other than throw everything they have against a sugar tax bill. Remember, comrade, it’s fat that makes you fat and just eat less and move more and you’ll be fine!

Increasing health care premiums for type 2 diabetics like we do for cigarette smokers?

This should happen anyway in a normal free market without government influence or price controls. With risk pooling, yes, your health premiums should increase a little as you use the insurance to cover things. I was recently impressed at a local Urgent Care doc-in-a-box, (my son has aggravated a growth plate in an ankle and we needed xrays) where at the front desk they had a menu of services with the dollar value for cash-only customers was laid out there for all to see. I’d like to see that take off!

If that same 10lb bag cost $913.00, do you reckon they’d sell fewer of them?

Hey sugar was initially a spice that only the rich could afford. Looks for a BattleStar Galactica emoji that represents "All this has happened before and all this will happen again