Day 8 on keto please read. Help

#21

Some people have the sleep thing, but there’s a difference between not sleeping yet being recovered in the morining, vs not sleeping. Not sleeping the same amount of time doesn’t matter as long as you’re good when you wake up.

Most electroylte powders don’t even remotely have enough in them, so double check what you’re getting. At first keto has a diuretic effect and you’ll dump way more electrolyes than most normal powders/drinks can replace. Mortons Lite Salt is a good way to get in both Sodium and Potassium in amount that matter.

If you’re not eating enough you’re going to feel like crap, an under-fueled person is going to feel like crap keto or not. Egg salad isn’t enough for a child to get by on, let alone an adult. Gonna have to force it. Doesn’t really matter if you get in veggies or not, but you’ve got to get in enough protein and fat regardless, they’re essential macros and your body won’t run right without them. Are you tracking your intake?

#22

No, there are no required food group, we can get every nutrient from multiple sources. Many carnivores proved that it’s possible to live on meat only, at least for a few decades, without supplements. I don’t say it works for everyone but vegetables still aren’t needed and for some people, even very unhealthy, it seems.

I can’t eat food I dislike (okay there was a few spoonfuls of spinach… that wasn’t even that horrible but I quickly stopped for years or decades both time) but it sounds bad.

I would have some possible ideas regarding eating vegs but if you dislike all veggies in every form, it won’t help. And as I am totally happy that I don’t like them anymore so I keep them at almost zero and it’s so cool… I don’t feel like to talk for veggies. (But they may be needed in certain situations. Not when one gets their nutrients from animal products for life and it works just fine.)

Lack of cravings was great :slight_smile: (But I needed my low-carb times, HC->keto was the craviest ever and I felt bad.) I just was so hungry I ate just like before keto. Stupid veggies :frowning: They brought too much non-satiating carbs and fat and messed with me.
But then it got way better after fat adaptation :slight_smile: And that is what we need several weeks for, you are right, 8 days is just the beginning, things will change later.

I never crave meat or even dairy but egg craving is a thing for me :smiley: And protein and fat craving too if I happen to neglect them occasionally during the day…

Fasting isn’t for everyone and it’s fine. And it’s not early if one feels like to do it but it’s probably mostly for people like me who simply didn’t start to force-feed themselves on keto… As I did IF way before keto and way before I heard about it. Doing it as another big new thing as a keto newbie, that sounds too much (but if someone can’t resist, I wouldn’t say anything against it. it’s merely tricky and probably not the best idea).

Exercise: I think we should do whatever we feel like… I badly need exercise myself, to keep my low-ish energy from going very low and my mood too. A little walk should be fine for most people I think. But just a little especially without adding even more calories as exercise requires them, even a little walk. But if it feels bad, a little break is fine too even for people who really can’t function without exercise.

Magic! :smiley: I only know sleeping and waking up as a zombie, that’s my thing (extremely low-carb actually seems help a bit. just keto never did). I rest as well as I can, it gets better in a few hours except on bad days, I am just not a morning person.
But resting well without sleep, wow.

(Elizabeth) #23

As long as the cravings are for good foods. And make me feel better I’m down lol

#24

Welcome! It sounds like both an electrolyte issue and and issue with taking in enough energy. I would supplement with salt first and then add in potassium if necessary, and look into magnesium if your legs are cramping. Most likely you can start with 1/4 teaspoon of salt at a time and see if it remedies the problem. If not, lite salt will give you potassium too.

From a calories perspective, eat more protein and fat. Once your body becomes more adapted to using fat for fuel, you can dial back on exogenous fat and up protein to let your body use its energy fat stores.

Are you sleeping less but still feeling rested, or not sleeping at all?

#25

Was that a response to me? If so Fats and Proteins are essential macros and we die without them, you said food group so maybe not, if so, disregard.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #26

Walking ought to be fine. The kind of exercise we are warning against is of the weight-training, high-intensity, or marathon-preparation sort. People find that once they are fully fat-adapted, their performance is back at, or sometimes greater than, pre-keto levels. Explosive power takes longer to return, but a recent study by Jeff Volek and his team showed that it has certainly returned by the two-year mark.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #27

It worked for me, as well. My fat loss occurred during an eight-month period in which I was eating three meals a day and not worrying about calories. Then there was a further twelve-month period of recomposition, during which my weight remained stable, but I lost a couple more inches. At some point during my second year on a ketogenic diet, I stopped wanting three meals a day, and I have been eating twice a day ever since.

(I can’t resist pointing out that, according to our standard abbreviations, I went from eating TMAD to eating TMAD, lol!!)

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #28

I’d be willing to bet that eating more would give you more benefit than worrying about potassium. (Potassium is tricky, so be careful. Both too little and too much potassium can be fatal.)

(Elizabeth) #29

I found an electrolyte powder that does only have 10 percent of the dv of potassium and nearly 50 percent magnesium it also has a lot of b vitamins in it and I plan to drink 4 packets a day. Plus eat other sources of potassium. And lol I’ve been just eating like a half a tsp of salt here n there to help increase the sodium. And I am tracking my macros. Some days I’ve gotten too much protein according to the app and not enough fat (though I still wasn’t hungry) and like yesterday I didn’t get enough protein but plenty of fat… I don’t know how to get plenty of both and not go over my carbs while also still getting the nutrients I need with foods I actually like. Unfortunately I’m way to picky for my own good. Basically I’ve been eating spinach, hamburger, eggs

(Elizabeth) #30

My heart was beating so funky. Yesterday I got 100 of the dv of potassium and felt so much better! But you’re right I made myself eat n so far today I’ve had to as well.

#31

No, it was a reply to the OP about needing vegetables (while even hating them but dutifully eating them as required things).

#32

It’s usually borderline impossible to eat too much protein… There are people who can do it, sure but it’s not very common and I for one can’t do that even if I overeat like crazy. I eat high-protein (not crazy high just high) but my body loves it. I consider it possibly dangerous to follow some very fixed targets for our macros. What if your “target” is 90g protein and you eat, like, 120 or 180 or maybe sometimes 250? It works for me, neved had a problem of too much protein. I couldn’t function with the number calculators give me. Some of us needs higher protein, sometimes or almost all the time and it’s fine.

We aren’t robots. It’s very normal we don’t eat the same macros every day. Sometimes they vary a lot and it’s fine.
Sometimes I stuff myself and eat little. Maybe the next day I will eat twice as much, life is like that, at least for some of us, even without extra exercise.

Spinach interferes little with macros, you probably don’t eat a ton and it’s a very low-carb item.
Eggs and meat are great, you hardly overdo carbs with them (and it’s probably not a problem anyway. I never noticed egg and meat carbs could be a problem while certain plant sugars caused tiny problems in very small amounts under some circumstances. I am healthy and handle carbs more than many others but my body still prefers extreme low-carb and give me nudges when I don’t eat so well).
I ate 4100 kcal and very low carbs (don’t remember, maybe 15g total?) some time ago using eggs and meat, it’s not actually hard if you like carnivore food… :wink: Add eggs and/or somewhat fatty meat and you will have more protein and fat alike. If you can add them, of course it’s not always possible, I had my low-cal days too… I don’t know long term undereating, that is something I totally can’t help with. I would try more tempting, denser, less satiating food and different timing but I can’t say more and they may not work for everyone.
Meat is quite nutrient dense, eggs are pretty good too…
People proved it’s possible to live on meat only so I for one don’t worry about my potassium and magnesium until I feel right and with enough meat I do… I don’t believe in fixed requirements for everyone on every woe, it’s known it’s not like this for Vitamin C, maybe for others too? But if you feel safer and better, have your supplements, it’s good we have those sometimes. I needed magnesium here and there myself.

#33

See this response from @siobhan. It’s complicated: more protein ≠ more glucose. But it does have effects on ketosis and fat utilization. Some people have an abnormal glucagon response to protein which can lead to increased gluconeogenesis and resultant glucose. Insulin is also involved as noted by Siobhan and per this response from @richard. So the overall advice seems sound: eat what you need but don’t eat a whole lot more than you need. Doing so will serve no useful purpose and may cause problems.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #34

I would just critique Siobhan and Richard’s comments to say that since then, Bikman’s team has shown a more nuanced picture. In the context of a high carbohydrate intake, protein causes a significant insulin response, while the carb intake causes glucagon to remain low. Thus the insulin/glucagon ratio, which is what determines whether we are in ketosis or not, becomes very high, and ketogenesis and gluconeogenesis are inhibited.

But in the context of a low-carb diet, it has been shown that excess protein stimulates both an insulin and a glucagon response, with the net result that gluconeogenesis from protein and ketogenesis remain unaffected.

What happens to the excess protein in the absence of increased gluconeogenesis is what I would question (and note that this is the case in both scenarios), because I don’t think it is as simple as saying that “protein turns to sugar in the body.” We do know that other mammals retain control of their serum glucose when both insulin and glucagon are removed from the picture, and it is reasonable to expect, until shown otherwise, that human beings have the same additional control mechanisms. Unfortunately, as far as showing otherwise is concerned, I don’t think there is an institutional review board on the planet that would countenance destroying people’s ability to produce those two hormones.

#35

Yeah, that was 2017. But I think at least one key thing that Siobhan brings up is the reduction of fat intake as protein intake increases. I suspect that could affect ketosis and fat utilization. @amber talks about this in one of her posts. She suspects that a possible cause of declining ketones over time that many long time ketogens experience may well be due to increasing protein and lessening fat intake over time. I would note, however, that the absolute limit on protein intake is ‘protein poisoning’, exceeding the metabolism’s available energy to process the protein and dispose of nitrogen waste products.

#36

No such thing on either, if you actually pulled off too much protein, you’d know it because you’d have the meat sweats and possible smell like ammonia. Fat isn’t a goal, it fills in the blanks.

(Elizabeth) #37

Hey everyone, so is it normal for my heart to be beating so hard? My blood pressure and heart rate are really good but my heart is like I can feel every beat boom boom. It’s kinda maddening lol. I’ve kinda read that palpitations will last about 2 weeks. But is this palpitations? It does feel like just a flutter in my chest. Anyone experienced this?

(Marianne) #38

About five ago, I developed pretty serious a-fib. I had a bad episode one evening and into the next day and drove to the doctor’s on my lunch hour. They called the ambulance for me and that’s when I knew I had it. This was pre-keto, and upon the recommendation of my cardiologist, I had a heart ablation, which seemed to rectify it (or maybe in conjunction with eating clean keto). Depending on where my head is on the pillow at night, sometimes I can hear my pulse in my head very strongly. Not a sound I enjoy because I usually think something is wrong for hearing it, but if I readjust, it goes away or lessens.

Keep eating enough and feeding yourself at consistent, regular intervals. Give it a couple of weeks to see if it resolves. If not, maybe see your doctor. They can put you on a 24-hour holter monitor and see if your rhythms are normal.

Good luck.

#39

Not sure if this has been suggested, but electrolyte pills help me tremendously