Coronary Calcium Scan

(Jane) #6

WHOOP!!!

That is awesome!

#7

That would be a score of zero?

I’ve had serial CAC scans 4 years apart. When I started keto WOE my score was ‘0’. My sceptical doctor at the time said I should get the scan done as I was embarking on the crazy high fat fad diet. He believed in walking as a weight loss tool as he liked walking and hiking. This year my score was ‘1’. Now according to the scientists who calculate risk in the WHO meat causes cancer study, my relative risk has increased by 100% from eating a low carbohydrate healthy fats diet (in nutritional ketosis for 4+ years and still learning).

I checked with a young cardiologist and she actually guffawed and told me to be less pessimistic, a lot less pessimistic. She pointed out that the difference could be between machines as the procedures were done in two different cities. She called it “white noise”. A term Ivor Cummins has used as well. A note here that the calculation is done within the computer of the imaging machine so the score is objective and unlikely to be impacted by operator or human interpretation bias.

This young cardiologist was quite good, a new young doctor doing her residency training in hospital. Healthy looking, bright etc. But she went on to advise me to eat the DASH diet or a Mediterranean diet instead of keto WOE as that is the standard of care for middle age people. I asked, if she heard what she was saying? One thing on interpreting the CAC in view of LCHF, and an almost diametrically opposed dietary recommendation. She did look confused. Hopefully confused enough to look into it further.

Congratulations @Jennibc.

(Bob M) #8

That’s the same with any test, even blood tests. No test is 100% perfect. But a score of zero or one is basically the same, and both yield very low actual risk.

CAC scans are one indicator, just the best indicator right now. I’ve seen people with lipid values all over the map getting CAC scans that are all over the map: people with FH (familial hypercholesterolemia) getting zero scores; people with “perfect” lipids getting high scores.

As with everything, we need more data. We need people who take these before going low carb, then take them afterwards (I only found out about the scan recently, and you have to pay for it yourself, but I got mine done after 5.5 years low carb, but not before). We need people with varying levels of lipids to get them done over time. It would be great to see a class of people with “high” LDL-p for instance to see what happens. I have extremely high Lp(a), which would cause most cardiologists who knew about it to crap their pants, yet got a zero score. Maybe Lp(a) isn’t a great risk factor? Or maybe whatever I’m doing is counteracting that “deadly” Lp(a)?

But if you’re a Thomas Dayspring or Peter Attia or other lipidologist, you just BELIEVE that certain lipids are bad. If we can get enough data, maybe we can start changing their minds (though with those two, I don’t think so).

Anyway, CAC scans are just one more data point. They just happen to be the best data point right now to tell you actual risk, as LDL/LDL-p/Lp(a)/OxLDL, etc., are all just markers.

(Jennibc) #9

That’s all they told me, but the imaging center is supposed to send me a copy of the report. So I should get that in the next week sometime. Will report back then.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #10

I think this is because sugar is 99% more of a factor in calcium plaque buildup than lipids. It’s misdirection at it’s most effective level. “Mysterious…:hushed:?” :cowboy_hat_face:

(Jennibc) #11

I think so too, but people are so slow to let go of the status quo.

(Jennibc) #12

Got the report today - the score was a big ol’ 0!

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #13

Super happy for you. Woot.

#14

Often we examine the emotional effects of test results that land us outside of the normals.

How do you feel with the zero score? Has that improved other biomarkers and outlook?

Fantastic news! Thanks for sharing.

(Jennibc) #15

Amazingly, despite having reached a high of 270 and having been obese for two decades, none of my numbers ever were outside of normal except for a low HDL. Otherwise everything was normal. I did have a triglyceride reading that that was getting up there. I think it was 2 points lower than when they say it’s outside of normal, but it was still normal. I did have issues with my thyroid, but that was a different.

I have always exercised almost daily. Even if it was just a brisk 30 minute walk, I’d get in some kind of aerobic exercise unless I was sick five to six times a week. Typically at least 50 minutes. Because I used to have fibromyalgia, if I did it more than six days in a row, I’d have bad symptoms. However, since that resolved in spring of 2016 (once I adopted Hyman’s high fat protocol!) I have been able to exercise daily. I credit that consistent exercise for keeping those numbers in check. My dad, who was really never overweight developed diabetes in his 50s as did one of his daughters who was slim (half sister) so there was a chance that could have happened. But I never even tested as prediabetic.

I was pretty confident that the number would be normal based on everything I’ve read. But I was happy to see it because it meant that all the naysayers were wrong and that I could continue doing this without even a nagging feeling that having all this saturated fat is harming me in some way. I will repeat the test in another year. But almost four years with way outside the recommended levels of saturated fat and having a zero score, I am pretty confident that I will be fine.

Also my husband did the test and also go a zero score!

#16

I had a calcium score done last week, too. My score was zero, after a year and a half of keto and a total cholesterol of 325. My PCP is no longer demanding I start taking a statin. :grinning:

(Cindy) #17

Wow, you girls give me HOPE!!! I have very high LDL, apolipoprotein, and VLDL since I went Keto, but very low triglycerides and very high HDL. Still my doctor is driving me crazy and now totally disgusted with me and ready to fire me as a patient because I won’t change my diet and use cholesterol drugs - and she is a Bredesen doctor! But she can’t let go of the LDL worry. I have all kinds of bad genes, so I keep telling her I would rather die of heart disease than all the other terrible diseases in my family, and she doesn’t want to hear that, although she can’t deny the truth of it. How much does the CAC test cost? If it’s not too expensive, I’ll get it done and see if it gives me the same good news as you two. I’ve been keto for 2 years now and my weight has been super slim since since I started keto too. So I could get similar results as you!

(Bob M) #18

It cost me $100, totally out of pocket.

If you do get a zero score, here’s a study you can use:

Statins do nothing if you have a zero score:

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(Cindy) #19

Thank you, Bob! $100 isn’t that bad. I thought it might be $300-$500. I’ll check out the article.

(Bob M) #20

Call around. I found three prices, two were $100, one was $300. I also found that two of the three needed a prescription, but the third one ($100) did not. That’s the one I chose.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #21

So far my doctor is okay with me but I want to stay out of a nursing home and avoid dementia. I have some bad genes as well (crones disease, mental illness, apoE3/4 Alzheimer’s Disease, mothfr). So I have the same wish.

(Bob M) #22

I should say, this is in Connecticut, USA. If you’re in another country, for instance, these can be much pricier. I’ve seen (on Twitter) some really high costs for these in the UK, for instance.

They also are CT (computed tomography) scans, so getting the correct search terminology is tricky.

(back and doublin' down) #23

Back in June,I paid $69 for one in Denver, Colorado. My PCP pretty much demanded I do it for my high cholesterol readings. She had consulted a ketogenic friendly cardiologist in the area who recommended the test to relieve HER worries, not mine. My score was also Zero! One of my happiest NSVs!

(Jennibc) #24

In Austin TX, I paid $75. But I have heard of it higher elsewhere. Google it in your area and see who offers it. I suggested it to my sister who is in Spokane, WA but up there they charge $300 and she decided that $300 was better spent on other things. If I were you, I’d do it even at a high price just to get your DR. off your back.

#25