So it’s starting anew for addicts? I don’t consider myself an addict (not even regarding peanuts. maybe for coffee? but it could be much worse as I am fine without, it’s just hard to keep myself from the stuff if it’s around and I am not determined) so it’s surely different for me but my past experience adds up and it helps. It’s one thing I never could bring myself to stay on high-carb, it’s totally against my desires after 1-2 carby days but nearly all the time, really (the last thing I desire is high-carb food now and it’s carni day #8 for me :slight_smile: it goes better than usual) - but I do have times when it’s hard to come back. Fruit season in my garden (like 5 of my big favs at the same time), a rare strong baking/experimenting phase… Sometimes I don’t go back to near carnivore after one off day. But

  1. I have this tabula rasa when I wake up, many people have it I am sure. I may not be able to stop eating the somewhat wrong food on the same day when I started (hence I never have off meals, I always have off days. well if it’s OMAD, it’s an off meal but if I start with carbs, I end with carbs except the last fatty protein bites, they are mandatory) - but it’s way easier when it’s another day, my body feels quite satiated and my mind is less affected.
  2. And I have all my past experiences and knowledge. It’s not starting anew at all. But I may get it, I need my previous point not to keep being entangled with my wrong desires. I am glad that rarely happens, not nice when it does. (Another day and I STILL like and want potato bread… Tragic. Of course eating a ton of it for days result in me unable to resist carnivore or something close so I always get saved pretty soon, no matter how bad state of mind I am. But even this is avoidable with my training.)

I have some idea about how alcoholics work (it’s purely theoretical as I never had any alcohol problems and until this day I don’t have ANY kind of limit on booze as I don’t need it) and yes, abstinence is very important in bad addiction cases. It’s still scary to think that people can just go back to high-carb and stay even if they know it’s bad for them… Some items, yes, I had a growing blacklist at a time because I couldn’t stop eating certain things if I started but easily stayed away from them. But many kind of carbs… And the bad phase lasting for long…? Creepy and sad.
I can’t stick to keto/carnivore but I can stick to higher-carb even WAY less. It’s weird and if a carby food can make me to eat it, that’s already a feat, I dislike most of the carby dishes now. I suppose addicts can’t get this distance even in many years…? I had it instantly with some groups (for a while), that was liberating and felt great.


love this line cause it has reality behind it. prison to carbs and a failing body because of it. Great thought!! Who wants to go back there? raises hand, not me :sunny:

(Geoffrey) #23

Well said Fangs.


Mental health is important. The stress of a diet (if anyone is on one) is staying on it. Some people have a mental incapacity and carb addiction that creates ‘avalanche’ eating or eating avalanche foods and then the spiralling mental health self-loathing that follows.

I reckon it depends on the physiological health and mental health state of the person when the situation arises. If a person is unhealthy, it may cause an avalanche. A healthy person can do it for enjoying good mental health and the freedom of fast adaptability and body resilience to disease.


agree cause it boils down to a few simple words, know thyself. And a few second ones, be true to yourself :slight_smile: If one does that then one can correct so many issues with their way of life eating and find that peace.


I do not live in a perfect world. I am not a masochist. In the beginning, I was very strict for the first six months. I now have a cheat breakfast every week, mostly good food, and lots of it (1200–1500 calories—feast mode). I believe this is healthy, as my body does not think I am always in some form of famine. I also believe that it helps better balance hunger hormones by having a large meal. Some studies out of Europe suggest that having a large meal once a week offsets the rebounding effect of weight loss. After almost 15 years, so far, so good.


And I am definitely a hedonist :smiley: And it’s a bit different from hedonism but if I want something to eat, I eat it. (The hedonist part is that I don’t want bad things, the worse they are, the less I want them.)

And doing my carni day #8 is perfectly hedonistic :wink: Being “strict” (I am not strict at all myself) doesn’t mean one sacrifices ANY joy. One may be lucky to want exactly what they have. Or close.

I am quite glad it’s easy now as carnivore eating feels so much better than a way carbier eating. The slightly carbier can be nice here and there, I haven’t give up those… I surely will eat fruit in June and stuff… But I don’t need it and don’t desire it now.

1500 kcal is a cute meal, only for lunch or dinner though, for me :slight_smile:

If we don’t starve, it won’t. I don’t know many people on this forum who does starving. Sometimes someone with super low-cal eating appears and we talk against that as it’s obviously not good.

Big meals (that I never can afford myself… but I can’t consider anything below 2000 kcal big) are individual, to a big extent. Some people just can’t have them. Or they can but they like to eat 2-3 times a day and never have tiny meals so it just makes them overeating and that isn’t healthy, among other problems.
And sometimes we need very different food choices for a really big meal. My current style has lots of very satiating food items and I get cute sized lunches and dinners this way. Good, I like to eat twice.

I have occasional high-cal days when I lose fat, not big first meals (but I have those too if a 1200-1500 kcal lunch can be called that). They always happen and it helps if I don’t have a calorie deficit every day, maybe in more way than one.
But I have them anyway. I can’t always eat modestly, that’s a bit low fat to my liking even if I get satiated eventually and my body is working well.

But this is very different from the original topic, it’s doing keto/carnivore/whatever just with much more food. Maybe with much more dairy when one restricts that (I limit it now, I need it, it’s fine but it’s still lovely to go a bit wild here and there). The common thing is that I don’t find it right to do too wild. I didn’t train so much to risk breaking my developed brakes. And anyway, going too far isn’t healthy.

(Jane) #28

I don’t call it cheating because when I have a carby food item it is a choice. I don’t endulge in any of my trigger foods (like potato chips) but can have a roll or piece of bread or breaded/fried meat once in a while and it is no big deal. I go back to keto because it is the way I eat and back into ketosis soon.


It’s called doing OMAD every day.

(Bob M) #30

I think it depends on how you are. I’ve seen plenty of people who are addicted and can’t have a minor amount of carbs, or they slide downhill. I’m not like that can can have some carbs, say on vacation. And I get right back on the wagon.

This book was written by someone who decided she was an addict to carbs and simply couldn’t have them:



That’s definitely not starving at all unless we combine it with it, of course. We are humans, not shrews :smiley: OMAD sounds the best idea to me now (if I can pull it off… I hope so as I was so, so hungry today, every meal was followed by tiresome hunger) - for me, of course others are different.


if I decide to do breakfast mine is a lb. of bacon (about 2400)
few ounces grated sharp cheddar melted on it (around 400/500)
fry up at least 6 link sausage (about 500)

so mine is hitting around 3500 and funny thing is that ain’t even considered a feast to me LOL All that above is just filler foods and I would be probably eating my first meal after that on the earlier side.

and ‘feast’ is valued so different for many of us also. I find that interesting too reading thru everyone’s wants. My feast can only be a lb. or 2 of steak or ribs or chops. In my lifestyle that is always my top feasting times, everything else is filler.

just got me thinking cause I haven’t even thought of kcals in like 7 yrs on plan but when I read posts when kcal values are listed every now and then it makes me think,what in the heck do I eat per day? I don’t know actually :slight_smile:

just a funny thought on it. just wild to see how we all differ so much in eating styles. just triggered some old thoughts on how I walked thru so many steps while I changed plans and such and where one will end up.

(Brian) #33

A once-off “cheat meal”, “cheat day”, whatever, is a non-event in the grand scheme of things for most people.

If it causes an avalanche to follow, or a health crisis of some kind, or a relapse into old ways / habits, that’s different. And some who read and post here would be in this group. I am fortunate to be pretty healthy overall and have no issues with a cheat day or cheat meal kind of thing. But I do also recognize the danger and see the ease at which I could fall back into old habits should I not put some limits on just how long of a cheat time it is. If I go more than a couple of days, the scale reminds me quickly with a warning I can’t ignore.

It’s not like we all keep a score card we have to display and get graded on by other members of the forum. You do you and what you do affects you. If a cheat day is a non-event, great! Enjoy it. You don’t need our forgiveness or permission. :wink:

(Bill) #34

Depends what that “one meal” is made up of?


I say sometimes “I don’t want a badge” :smiley: (That’s more like because of the tiny extras that makes my woe carnivore-ISH. It’s tiny, it’s innocent but without it I would feel miserable and would think I did a bad, not hedonistic deal and I can’t live like that. But it can refer to my off times too.)
I do take notes for myself. And we have the carni thread and I will tell the others if I go off. But this is one of my dedicated carni months, it’s training for me.
Carni day #10 now, it’s brilliant, I just had some problems with eating lean enough yesterday… :frowning: But of course, I had lots of cream and no lean meat! The next days will be better. But I never will be able to do it for long term. If I went wild now, that would be scratchings, a lot of it, I don’t care about carbs, I rather want fat, much better. (I am not normally this good but now I am).
Anyway, a bunch of lovely crunchy fat is very good against cravings and hunger alike if they are the reason one jumps carbs…

(KM) #36

Most of this is where I was going with the original post, the “poll” was whether people would still make substitutions / amendments if having a special day, or just have a day of … eating like everyone else and not thinking about their WOE. I.e. just order what they like best off the menu. I probably shouldn’t have used the word 'Cheat", but it’s interesting how the discussion has morphed regarding feelings of guilt or fear or pride!

(Jane) #37

The only time I have ever gone off plan for any length of time was during our Italy vacation pre-Covid. We didn’t eat breakfast but lunch and dinner were carby pizza and fresh pasta. When I got home I had lost 3 lbs but we walked everywhere so I walked the carbs off instead of storing as fat.

On a cruise I can stick to my plan much easier. There are plenty of egg and meat dishes plus cheese and charcuterie.

Besides that one vacation I only go off plan for one meal, like Thanksgiving or Christmas - enjoy the carb hit and then hit the low carb meaty leftovers the next meal.

I know not everyone can do this but it works for me. Also I didn’t start doing this until year 2 on keto so by then it was just the way I ate, not a “diet”.


Well with this wording I get totally new thoughts (sorry)… Of course I use my fav versions of things on any day. Because I prefer that. And even if I would consider the carbier version a tiny bit better, I wouldn’t want it if it was WAY worse otherwise. If it’s much tastier or nostalgic or I just want it and I handle it well, that’s another question.

Hell no :smiley: Ew. I want to eat in a way where I enjoy it the best! Normal is overrated!
I can understand if someone finds charm in eating like their family at a birthday or something. I am not like that but I understand it a bit.

I always think about my woe, it can’t be helped but at this point it’s automatic anyway. I am hungry, I eat meat. Maybe egg too. What else? I need some serious temptation interrupt to go elsewhere.

I can’t enjoy eating a whole super carby Christmas roll (actually half a walnut and half a poppy seed one, it’s zillion calories, not a tiny thing) and stopping before that amount isn’t easy… :smiley: I just try to avoid the thing and bring my own, low-carb dessert. I fail but if I stuff myself first, I can stop after 10 slices. It took AGES on low-carb, keto, some carnivore times and very much training to get this disciplined… :frowning: My SO’s Mom can bake, I must say. I really will bake my own this year… It was the plan for last Christmas but I always bring some complicated edible gifts and I had no mood and energy for the rolls as well.
If I avoid this trigger food, that’s much better but that meal wouldn’t be particularly carby that way (and that’s what my body likes).

(KM) #39

Lucky you! We went to Italy for our honeymoon, and spent 10 days eating pretty much nothing but pizza. By the time we arrived at our second destination, my in-laws, I looked like a sausage in every piece of clothing I owned. I’m pretty sure my mother-in-law thought I was some sort of cheap tramp, I had absolutely nothing that wasn’t skin tight. I think I gained 8 lbs in 3 weeks. This was two decades ago, so no, the cheat meal is never going to be extended for 3 weeks again!

(Eve) #40

Same here Janie