Calorie restriction?

calories
(Bryce P.) #1

Hey people, I need some clarification. I think i heard on the podcast that restricting calories on keto isn’t important. Is that right? If I’m heavily active 3 days per week and eat 2200-2500 calories and days that I’m sedentary only eat 1500-1800 calories common sense would dictate that’s a good plan. Yet I’m adding some belly fat lately. A month ago the 6 pack was dialed in and now she’s starting to fade.

I fast 18/6 a couple days a week and throw in the odd 24 hour fast too. On heavily active days I do 16/8. Some days i just do 13/11 if it’s a social setting.

Any calorie restriction advice? (Apparently my BMR is 1850 kcal, but I doubt it’s really that high)

All things CICO - back from the dead thread
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Two things are required to convince the body to yield up any of its excess stored fat: (1) low insulin, accomplished by eating as little carbohydrate as possible (we recommend under 20 g/day), and (2) an abundance of calories, accomplished by eating to satiety. Caloric restriction tells the body that there is a famine going on, so it had better hang on to its fat store for emergencies.

(Jenny) #3

this is not true. you literally just said eating more calories makes one lose body fat. Caloric restriction does not tell the body a famine is going on. Eating more food over what the body needs will cause the body to store fat. Eating less will tap the body’s reserves.No, calories are not the whole story on keto, but what you are saying makes no common sense. Even dr. Fung says this. Long term low calorie is not the answer. But what you said, also not the answer.

edited to explain.

(Jane) #4

Maybe not for you but many here on the forum have lost weight after eating more calories.

(Carl Keller) #5

Keto is carb restriction, not calorie restriction.

Restrict carbs, eat moderate protein and high fat. Doing this will self-determine how many calories you will require without putting your metabolism at risk The key is eating the latter two things to satiety.

Doing this will teach your body that fat is the primary fuel source and as your hormones get better sorted and your body gets better at using fat as fuel, you might find that it takes you way less calories to reach satiety. This isn’t something to worry about. It just means that your body fat is being used to supplement caloric deficit.

In a ketogenic diet, if you trust your hunger and satiety signals, the calories will figure themselves out.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

Read my post again, carefully.

What I said was that calorie restriction inhibits the body from releasing excess fat, and that eating to satiety convinces the body that it is safe to do so. So yes, more calories than an arbitrary restriction, but not more calories than the body is asking for. It is to be understood that this all applies only in a low-carbohydrate environment, of course.

Eating to satiety—just to make sure everyone understands—means eating when hungry, stopping eating when no longer hungry, and not eating again until hungry again. Only by eating to satiety can we convince the body that it is safe to part with any extra stored energy (in other words, fat).

#7

Yes, forget it.

Focus on carbs. Really make sure there are no hidden carbs. They’ll be hiding in plain site. Some food you reckon is OK, but isn’t. (I got done by changing brand of yogurt and another time by the local cafe’ coffee+milk, much more milk than I realised).

If you are truly in nutritional ketosis it is very hard to overeat. Easier to under-eat because we’ve all had years of conditioning along those lines.

(The experts say “calories do matter”, “but it’s too complicated, don’t count them, just eat until you are full it’ll work itself out”).

If you are not losing triple check all your food items. 20g carbs is the key. Sometimes the body doesn’t feel like losing that’s ok too, just hang in there …

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

As Dr. Westman says, “Calories matter, but we shouldn’t count them.” The point is that the hormonal response to the types of foods we eat is more relevant to understanding what our body will do with the food we give it than the actual calorie count. The body is quite capable of increasing or decreasing the metabolic rate in response to the food we give it—if we give it the right types of food.

Coca-Cola wants you to believe that a calorie is a calorie, because they have product to sell. My experience is that sugar in my diet causes me to get fat, regardless of my total calories. When I eat a high-carbohydrate diet, most of what I eat gets stored in my fat cells, because the carbohydrate stimulates insulin, and insulin is the fat-storage hormone. When I don’t eat carbohydrate and give my body enough calories to convince it that there is no famine going on, it becomes perfectly willing to help fuel my activities with some of my stored fat. It sets my appetite at a level that gives it enough energy—from what I eat, and from my stored fat—to do what it needs to do. If it thinks there is a famine, because I am denying it calories, it will respond by reducing my metabolism and husbanding its fat stores, and I will lose very little weight, if any.

Clear?

(Empress of the Unexpected) #9

I weigh 109. Thanks to Keto. For what it’s worth, just got the urge to eat six teaspoons of sour cream. That is my body talking to me. Even at maintenance, your body runs on fat. Correction, eight.

(Jenny) #10

you said an "abundance of calories ".
And that calorie restriction tells the body that there is a famine going on.

but now you are saying an arbitrary restriction. It’s not arbitrary, assuming one consults a keto calculator or otherwise makes an educated estimate about their tdee.

your second post certainly makes more sense than the first and I appreciate the further explanation.

But if we had to eat to satiety to convince the body it was “safe” to release calories, fasting wouldn’t be effective. The body would assume it was a famine and refuse to fuel itself on body fat, based on your argument.

remember, I said calories aren’t the whole story…they are not. But, that are part of the story.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #11

Eat when you’re hungry, stop when you’re not. Fast when you want to be trendy.

#12

Not quite, there’s a distinction between fasting and restricting calories. If I ate a 2000 calorie meal and then decided to do a 48-hour fast, my body knows it can dip into its fat reserves to gain the calories it needs during that time I’m not feeding it. This is only really effective once you’re fat-adapted. However, if I decide not to do a 48 hour fast, but instead only eat 1200 calories spread out over three or four meals, and my body requires I get 2000 calories to feel satisfied, all my body knows is that it’s not full; and because I’m eating frequent, low-calorie meals, it doesn’t have a chance to dip into my fat reserves to make up for the calories lacking.

Fasting =/= calorie restriction. People who fast regularly tell people to make sure they’re feasting when they’re not fasting.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #13

That’s all well and good - but why would I fast at 109 pounds. I have enough problems eating enough!

#14

After gaining ketosis, If you want it off your but don’t put it in your face

(Empress of the Unexpected) #15

Ten months in. My hunger is still with me.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #16

I love it - I have a naturally small appetite - probably 900 calories a day .

#17

Calories are still important. But once you are fat adapted, hunger should be the guide as to how much fat you need to eat. You want to keep carbs low, so you stay in ketosis. You want to make sure you get enough protein, because your body needs it. But, at that point, some of your fat needs are being filled by stored body fat, so you shouldn’t need to eat as much fat. That’s where natural calorie reduction (not necessarily restriction) comes in.

Restriction may be necessary if someone eats for reasons other than hunger, such as out of boredom, or out of habit.

Before keto, I was ravenously hungry all the time. No more.

(Jenny) #18

that’s true. I said this in my first post here: “Even dr. Fung says this. Long term low calorie is not the answer.”

I agree with everything you wrote about fasting :slight_smile:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #19

I am still hungry - but fill up on fat

(Jenny) #20

love it, I agree with everything you’ve said. my butt fat is stored excess calories I have already eaten. I want my body to use my butt fat for fuel :slight_smile: lol! it won’t have any reason to tap that fuel if I’m eating too much food!