Blue Zones... looking for videos online that comprehensively refute the ridiculous claims

(Bob M) #82

My favorite quote from this book: “Plants should scare the h**l out of you.”

(Brian) #83

Well… they don’t frighten “stuff” out of me, but I’m glad they’re not the main part of my diet anymore. :slight_smile:

Hmmm… I had sausage (had some basic seasonings in it, not so bad, not store-bought), eggs, some cottage cheese (which I like on the eggs and sausage, moist and soft texture), and coffee (with cream, butter, and a bit of stevia) for breakfast. Probably not “carnivore” enough for some of you but I felt pretty good about it. LOL!! Not too many plants in there, and pretty small amounts of what would have come from them. I kinda doubt I’ll ever be “pure” carnivore except by rare accident. But dang it, I do edge up on it more often than one might think. :wink:

(Bob M) #84

He does eat plants, but he cooks them well or ferments them. He loves fermenting things.

One thing I thought was interesting is that he doesn’t recommend eating many nuts, saying there’s no way to make them non-toxic. And the few nuts/seeds he does eat, he processes a lot.

#85

I like that his stance on a variety of topics is nuanced. He readily admitts there is a ton we do not know about food or that you must eat this way or that way. He said that it was rediculous to think that there is only one way to eat. Eat the best unprocessed food possible.
In the last 1 1/2 year there have been a number of studies (10 that I have found) looking at plant oxalates. To sum up these studies, oxalates generally are a non issue for most people They could be a problem if you are lacking the commensal bacteria to break them down and that can drive pathology. Plants are high in dietary nitrate and has been shown to be important, especially as we age for cardiovasluar health. If your gut biome is dysbiotic, yes its possible to take in oxalates, and that is not great. But the optimized microbiome prevents this from happening.

(KM) #86

Where things like this get so murky for me is in terms of my dietary … evolution. I would say I was a successful omnivore, doing a reasonable job of sticking to whole foods, and had an excellent microbiome capable of handling almost any plant I chose to ingest. I got into keto to maximize health, not mitigate disease. However, I’ve been veering closer and closer to carnivore, which could mean I’m exchanging an “omnivore’s gut biome” to one more compatible with carnivore. I keep wondering what happens to all the formerly balanced bits and pieces. Could I switch back or have I lost colonies bacteria working in symbiosis with plants? Should I still be feeding my “plant biome” ? ??? :roll_eyes:

(Bob M) #87

What I’ve found is that well cooked or fermented plants >>>>>> raw plants or not that cooked plants. Even then, cooked plants can still effect me at times, depending on the plant.

Fruits seem to be better, vegetables less so. Though I don’t eat many fruits other than olives.

There are many more anti-nutrients than just oxalates.

#88

You bring up some good points. It would seem, or I would expect, that the more diverse your food intake is, the more diverse your gut biome would be. By extension, providing just meat to your gut biome may limit the diversity of your gut. Is diversity a good thing? Not sure. Maybe in 5 years, when “Gut Biome” becomes the topic of the day, we will know. Maybe.
Lots of hospitals are now regularly doing fecal transplants on subjects who are deficient or need healthy microbiota as a way of treating infection.

I have a friend who has been lactose-intolerant for more than 20 years. He did a program recently where he was able to recolonize his gut with the goal of being able to consume dairy again. It worked.

#89

Lots to digest in this thread (haha), @kib1 Ben Bikman may be onto something. I don’t know if anyone remembers the yogurt commercials from the 1980s when they went to Georgia in the USSR or someplace similar and found an 89 year old guy who ate yogurt whose mother was still alive? Later there was some dispute over the ages as noted in this Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Soviet_Georgia

The actual ages of the farmers shown were disputed afterwards and were never proven by the Dannon company.

Also, some female Holocaust survivors who were in their 30s and 40s changed their ages to be younger, whether to be a better marriage prospect or out of vanity who knows. When they got to 65 it became a problem for them.

@ffskier I agree, I don’t have 40 or 50 years either. I have started doing some research on supplements for longevity but I am not sure there is anything worthwhile.

I’m not sure about exercise. I know I don’t feel well if I do absolutely nothing. I have been playing doubles tennis 1-3X per week for 1.5 years mostly as a social thing and because I like it, I would do it even if it caused me to gain weight. A few months ago I added some gym time 2X per week, perhaps an hour, about 35 minutes of biking and elliptical, then some weights/circuit training. It is more to help me get ready for outdoor biking and skiing (two activities that I love but rarely do) and with the tennis elbow (that I got from another sport 10 years ago, not actually from tennis but it aggravates it). I am hoping to strengthen the muscles around the elbow, also I recently got a different racquet which seems to be helping. However, my back is a little stiff which has been going on for years. The weird part, I used to be very into long distance biking. My back would hurt (not while biking, after or the next days). At some point I stopped exercising and strangely my back felt better. I am not sure why but that is not supposed to happen!

In terms of longevity, not sure if genetics matters as much as people think or rather I think it is unpredictable because of the recessives, in the same way two healthy people can have a child with a disease that no one knew about.

I have a female relative that lived to 98. She danced at her 90 birthday party. She never walked into
a gym, but also never owned a car and lived in cities that required public transport and walking. She loved meat, enjoyed her whiskey (maybe 2 a week, not a huge drinker), hated green vegetables but was not keto, more a meat and potatoes person. Among her last meals was liver and onions (she asked me to get her some a few weeks before she died) She lived alone until 94 or 95. At that point physically she was not in great shape but mentally was all there until the end. Her mother and sister died at 78 and 76 of heart attacks. Her father was killed but his brother did live to 89 and just stopped talking one day in the middle of lunch with his family (I think that is the way to go if you have to go!) Her first cousin on her mother’s side lived to 95 (they always had a competition so I am sure she as happy she beat her!) meanwhile the cousin’s sister died in her 60s of a heart attack but she always had a weak heart. When I was a kid for years before she died she had to be carried up the stairs when she visited us. The 98 year old’s child is now in her 80s. She exercises daily and can beat most people at golf and tennis. She is planning a trip abroad and wants to rent a car while there and drive through the mountains, she will be doing the driving! When her kids did not want to go on the driving part she said she will go alone if no one wants to come! She eats mostly low carb starting from 2018 or so.

Meanwhile, one of my grandmother’s friends (not my relative), had parents who survived to 99. She spent middle age planning her golden years. However, at 78 she got cancer and was dead 3 months later. I also had a friend who was 87 (at the time I thought she was 70), her mother died at 107. She was volunteering at her grandchildren’s school for hours at a time and she was active. All of a sudden she got sick and was gone from cancer in 6 months.

Would love to still be posting here when I am 150!
I do wonder what happened to some of the people. There was a woman in her late 30s who posted here in 2017 or so. She was trying to lose 10 or 20 lbs and tried absolutely everything. I am not sure what happened to her, she went by @yayhowfun or something similar but at some point I think changed her name to something else. I still come but sometimes a period of time goes by.

I have been doing some more plants recently but its weird, whenever I have a homemade veggie smoothie (more to stick collagen into than anything else), I always get some gas throughout the day, same if I eat SAD for more than a day. Low carb rarely gives me gas, so I notice it when it happens with vegetables. I cannot imagine going carnivore because I don’t like meat that much. Sure I can happily eat hamburgers, chicken nuggets (yes I am 7! (although they did not have those when I was 7!) , breaded chicken cutlets, shrimp, turkey bacon and regular (only started eating that a few years ago), tuna in mayo (not my first choice), cold cuts (love Bologna, again I am 7), Lox, sushi and sashimi, well made steak (which I cannot do at home!), beef or lamb stews or indian versions. I don’t mind the occasional chicken on the bone or turkey but it is not my go to. I dislike most seafood (take a supplement) so I am pretty limited. I probably eat more eggs and dairy than anything else. I also find I do not like grass fed beef as much as conventional although I will buy grass fed for the family. I do like brisket, it is very soft as long as you cook it low and slow but the sauce has some carbs

(Brian) #90

“Genetics” can sneak in to our vocabulary in subtle ways. Gramma and great-gramma only lived to 70 so that’s how long I’m likely to live. Well… not only did gramma get her genes from great-gramma and you get your genes from gramma, you also got all of the traditions, daily lifestyles, and recipe books passed down to you as well.

I’m guilty of the tendencies to want to live like my ancestors and have to consciously deviate sometimes, when I know something is not good for me. (Oh, my grandmother could make pies and cakes and goodies like no one’s business. And I still want to. But I know better and I’m not gonna do it.)

I don’t know if you follow Dr. Rob Cywes. I kinda like the guy. He’s not dogmatic about any particular eating style or particular food(s). But he does lean heavily towards carnivore. I think he’s more interested in your getting your nutrition and avoiding garbage that will do you harm. I thought of him because he likes the combination of eggs and dairy for a really good swath of good nutrition. Unfortunately, there are quite a few things in the veg kingdom that just aren’t as healthy as we’ve been told they are. Can we have some? Most of us can. Should we? Probably not.

I’m coming to understand that there seem to be foods that cause very little harm (i.e., beef from a healthy animal), foods that could be harmful in the short term (i.e., high fructose corn cyrup), and other foods that may seem to be fine but perhaps build up in the system over months, years, or decades (i.e., brussels sprouts) with oxalates or other poisons that just take time to manifest. And then there are things like castor beans where a couple of them means you’re deep six, you’re outta here, pickin’ turnips with a stepladder, the groundhogs are bringin’ your mail. :wink:

I probably said that poorly. We do the best we can.

(Edith) #91

Cancer is becoming more and more common. It can’t be all about diet. We have so many more chemicals in the environment than when our grandparents and great-grandparents were born. I’m sure the poisoning of the Earth is a huge contributor to our shortening lifespans.

#92

I always have worried about estrogen mimickers, ground water that has been exposed to lawn chemicals. Even going back to my 20s, I sought out organic when the opportunity presented and the cost was reasonable. I mostly clean with vinegar, baking soda although I will use other products if I have to. In some ways I have become less concerned about that than I used to be, not sure why. Perhaps because everyone else has become more concerned so the toxic is perhaps not as toxic as it used to be,

As for longevity, people have two parents. For every 90 year old grandmother, there is grandpa who died at 76 (a couple I actually know, the funny part, he was a gym teacher, always a healthy weight, she always had a BMI of over 40 and she is approaching 90) so you may take after the other parent

(KM) #93

It’s like a pendulum, I think. At first humans had a tough time of survival, they had to fit into a niche in the ecosystem. Then we became able to tweak that ecosystem and began flourishing wonderfully, as a species. Great, except the ecosystem is now in collapse because we had no idea of the consequences of fiddling with it, essentially converting any bit of the planet we could reach into a human monoculture. Now our bodies seem to be paying the price for creating an artificial, unsustainable system.

(Bob M) #94

I think it might be due to diet, as a main factor anyway. We have so much sugar in our diets now. My kids, for instance, are inundated with it. Kids constantly are eating crap, and I mean constantly. The idea of snacks in school should be banned, in my opinion. But they aren’t.

I could go on and on about the amount of sugar and snacks my kids are exposed to in school… stunning really.

All of the food is replete with PUFAs. All of our food is cooked in these. The olives I used to buy are stored in containers…of sunflower oil.

(KM) #95

I got excited a few months ago about an international grocery I found that carried all kinds of exotic and unknown (to me) foods. I’m quite sad to realize that 95% of what’s for sale there is processed carbage and additives, it’s just different packaging and flavors dependent on which country’s aisle I walk down. If this is really the state of various countries’ ordinary food selections, it’s no wonder the whole world’s sick. (And, I guess, a little more explicable that the few little pockets ostensibly not eating this crap are living longer.)

(Edith) #96

Diet is really the only thing we have control over.