Blood ketones

#1

Greetings,
I am a newbie to the group, and could use some input. my blood ketones are low when measured even though 50 g protein < 20 g net carbs, fat ~100 g. I have to eat MCT and braine octane with my bulletproof coffee to kick it up there into the nutritional ketosis levels. . My concern is that I will be just measuring the ketones circulating in my system and not pulling from my fat reserves. I have been doing this since may and have not lost any weight.
I wont’ go into a lot of detail of past metabolic “abuse” needles to say been dieting for 45 years.

thanks
Becky

(Mark Rhodes) #2

Welcome. Glad you are here. My response is going to be general as I do not have enough information from you to know.

Nutritional Ketosis is usually detectable via the blood in about two weeks. The urine strips will decrease in color as your body begins to use the ketones. Do not worry about a high score. No evidence suggests that higher is better. eat plenty of salt and magnesium. You may feel ill those first two weeks. Over the course of the next 6 weeks or more you should eat, eat eat. Do not worry about calories. Eat until full. I used fat bombs those first months.

Eventually your readings will maintain an average. You will feel better than you did. I never really felt the energy rush others did. I have not tremendous amounts of weight either but I have as well as put on lean tissue which is my goal.

Measure yourself with a tape!! Take pictures!! Your memory will lie these other tools will not. Not every victory is on a scale.

As to the brain Octane, yep. I fluid ounce raises me up a full point and my temperature goes up. DIdn’t lose more or less weight. My wife uses it but her issues are about cognition, which have improved.

#3

thanks for your quick response, I have been eating ketogenic since may. And am truly baffled why I haven’t lost. I have listened to D’Agostino, Phinney and Volek, Mark Sisson, Jimmy Moore and Dave Aspry. you name it. I have not lost inches and after supper I do not measure that I’m in ketosis.
If I measure between .5mmo; and 3.0 during the day, when I eat the evening meal I will be low. Recently I have been measuring low, been working with Dr Berg is tweak it, to no avail. I have toyed with supplementing with exogenous ketones, but think that is just a band aid. Don’t know if my metabolism is so lazy or what. As I said I have dieted all my life and the lasted was living on HCG until it quick working.

thanks again for your responding so promptly
Becky

(Mark Rhodes) #4

The wife did a year of HCG and I did 42 days with following protocol. Her progress has been slower. Perhaps it did do some damage, hadn’t thought of HCG as the culprit.
What has helped both of us is limiting eating ANYTHING until dinner. And yes that qualifies as IF. We did so to limit insulin responses throughout the day. I figured perhaps there is just too much insulin to allow for lipolysis. It seems to be helping. We also removed sweet treats. Again I have no idea if Stevia affects my wife or not but we are currently in a 21 day experiment to see if abstaining from Stevia is detrimental to her.

I hit a stall that I broke through with extended fasts prior to IF schedule. It seems you have good consulting behind you and I am afraid I do not have much more to add other than my experience. Those resources you mention are the same ones I used to make our progress. Hopefully someone else can help you out.

#5

THANK YOU, I’m 60 and experienced 4 fractured vertebrae from horse back riding 2 years ago. still have the weight with me that I gained from being in a brace for 3 months then rehabbing for a year… I consider my self an athlete but not marathon type. I have resumed my workouts though not like they once were.
Debugging is a bugger isn’t it. I have not to the mind set at the moment to do more than IF with bulletproof coffee. I don’t know how long it takes to get adapted to fat burning and realize it is different for everyone. Exogenous ketones might be the answer. I just don’t know.

thanks again
be well,
Becky

(Mark Rhodes) #6

Becky- Ouch.Injuries are awful at any age. I am 53 and for years I dealt with herniated disks. Eventually L6 popped out about 12mm into my sciatica. I became disabled and took “their” course of treatment- opiates, which made my life miserable to the point of being beyond addiction. I fired all my doctors, detoxed myself and as an engineer designed a plan to rehabilitate my health. As a former marathon runner I know I just cant run anymore. But I can do everything else. I weight lift, kayak, farm and work on the factory floor. All without pain. Once I started this way of life minor aches and pains decreased due to not eating inflammatory foods. Has it for you?

My wife is also seeking a mold test she heard about on Shawn Mynmar podcast. Shawn says her Keto was ineffectual until she treated her mold allergies. If you cannot find it ask me about it again…I think I heard it on Jimmy Moore when he had her as a guest on La Vita Low Carb.

#7

Dear Mark,
I believe you have the most wonderful lifestyle. Kayaking is on my plan, as is surfing.!!! I didn’t take the opioids either, fortunately have amazing healers in my community and got Reiki and acupressure 5x/ for about 2 months. Probably went back to work too early, but nonetheless … Yoga has been my saving grace fortunately had a practice prior , and I can tell when I have slacked off.

I have a degree in chemistry and also practice healing work on horses so had an idea what I needed to address. changing my mind set about exercising has been difficult, but its then diet now. I understand the chemistry, and agree with fat for fuel and having working on a diabetic study understand the importance of insulin restriction. Baffled it isn’t working like gangbusters for me.

I am not sure I have totally eliminated inflammatory foods but had a blood test which indicated no inflammation. What are the ones you addressed, I am aware of the night shades.

I was loaded with mercury ~ 10 years ago and went through a chelation regimen, and house has been checked for mold. I do have a fibroid, and adrenal stress. broken back 11/15 ,new job in January and father passed on in May. (settling the estate with some contentious sisters is a blast) am addressing the adrenals with supplements and acupressure (Dr Berg)

Now you have way more information than you probably wanted. haha. I am not sure how many carbs women need, 15 net carbs may not be enough but I know I have abused my body for decades (anoxia, , bulimia, constant caloric restriction, then HCG) . This is why I say I may have an interesting metabolism. Unfortunately I think I am one of many women you have treated themselves in this way.

do you also incorporate exogenous ketones into your diet?

I appreciate your input.
BB

(Mark Rhodes) #8

No.
Although I can see my BHB levels rise with them much like taking a shot glass of MCT oil I found no benefit for fat loss in having higher blood concentrations. The wife does take MCT oil but she is more focused on memory retention in this regard.

My rather short list of inflammatory foods are the vegetable oils, soy products, peanuts, beans ( including green beans ). I do eat a lot of nightshades, peppers, hot peppers and tomatoes. it could possibly help more if I were to eliminate them but as it currently works for me, I will do it till I need the next course correction.

Because of the mechanical engineering I accumate data. Then pour over it looking for tweaks. I would love to be able to test for insulin instead of inferred insulin response. This because I would like to know our response to the artificial sweeteners. That being said it was how I discovered certain eating patterns after the initial keto were not suitable to my body image goals although quite acceptable healthwise.
I also am interested in cortisol. I suspect that I do not rest enough and I think it may be cortisol related. As such I have tried to adopt suggestions in this regard but nothing miraculous has changed.

i think we all bring emotional baggage to this WOE. I did. I also think that as we become physically healthier we can make better emotional choices. So instead of eating or not eating or drinking we instead feel what it is that consumes us otherwise. 15 years ago my Ma died and I cared for her. 2 months prior to her death Ma talked to my sister and told her I was getting my grandfathers house as I stayed with her all the years to care for her and my sister agreed. Until Ma died. That cost me dearly. Today we are friendly but that too, took years to overcome.

Thanks for your “envy” on my lifestyle:wink:

#9

Hi Mark
I recently spoke with one of my PAs who reviewed my chart and she told me I had bulging discs , degenerative disc in addition to recovering from those fractures. I think that the factures may have influenced the lumbar bulges. I would love to know how you rejuvenated yourself. I am currently trying to convince myself to get back in the pool. was a distance and competitive swimmer and just love it.
After working all day where sitting is not a happy place I am ready to lay down. its a mind set I know.

Just the same how’d you do it. I am also going to speak with Dr Will Cole who is doing ketotalk with jimmy moore now. I can’t seem to get a straight answer on why I’m not loosing fat.

Trust you are enjoying these days
Becky

(mike) #10

I calculate this out to be about 1200 calories. Protein = 4 calories/gram, Carbs=4 calories/gram, and fat=9calories/gram. 200 Protein, 80 carbs, and 900 Fat = ~1,180 calories. From all of the information I have read and heard over the last several years it seems that this right here might be your issue. I think I have heard Jimmy Moore talk about this many, many times on his podcasts. Dr Fung’s Intensive Diabetes Management Blog covers this well too.

When we don’t eat enough our body slows down our metabolism to compensate for the lack of food. If your metabolism is set at 1200 calories that could be why. I’m not a doctor but this is something to look into as well. What is real interesting however is fasting actually can increase your metabolism.

Dr Will Cole should be able to help you out.

Good luck on your journey. KCKO

(mike) #11

Check out a post by @Richard. Could be helpful in your situation.

(Mark Rhodes) #12

Mostly time and inactivity but along with that:

Used and inversion table 3x daily for 15 minutes each.
My yogi studied with Iyanger in India and also is an RN. We devised a series of poses that open the spine, lengthen the intercostal muscles. Also worked on my feet. Stretching them, opening them up. My idea was that some of my issues may have been built on a bad foundation and as a former marathoner i abused my feet.
I removed any food that had possible inflammatory responses for 6 months or more. Then I would begin to reintroduce them. If my knees of wrist felt arthritic in the 48 hrs after I assumed that food was a NO for me. Some foods took a cumulative or multiple days to be a problem.
After a year of this I reintroduced weight lifting again. Light weights, compound movements. I did focus on core strength rather than physique muscles at first. Then heavier.
Whenever I feel I overtaxed my back or that I could potentially aggravate it I stop any activity and I go hang upside

I had 7 herniated disks, L6 was 10x10x12 mm into the sciatica. Today I have ZERO low back pain and any other pain is usually muscle and not spine related. I am very tempted to get an MRI to satisfy my curiosity but that could be very expensive. I need to price them out.

(VLC.MD) #13

Listen to your body.
Not the MRI.

Have you heard the story about curiosity and the cat ?

(Mark Rhodes) #14

Curiosity killed the cat.
Satisfaction brought it back.

The engineer in me cannot resist. I wish to understand if a year of keto helped, physically is a way that can be marked. Most people don’t heal like I have. I have no back pain and I do everything I did prior to degeneration with the exception of 70 mile weeks.