Anyone had high bad lipids numbers (bad cholesterol, triglycerides, etc.) while in ketosis and successfully lowered it without drugs while remaining in ketosis?

(Cristian Lopez) #3

Im trying too lower my mine by doing a higher protein,cutting out all dairy,no adding oils or additional fats too meals,and eating alot more fish and veggies.

basically im olny eating

carb sources:
Super Low low carb veggies,less than .5 per cup compacted
Trace fish carbs
Trace nut carbs

Protein:
EGG whites NO EGG YOLKS
Lean chicken breast
Very lean STEAK
Lean turkey
any and all fish even fatty salmon

Dairy and substitues:

Fage 0% has 3 carbs per 1/2 cup but I think less because of active cultures
Unsweetened almond milk
Whey isolate (A staple too curb milk shake cravings)
Nutritional yeast instead of cheese
NO OTHER DAIRY

Fat sources:
Avacados
any and all nuts except peanuts and pistachios
100% dark chocolate
Pumpkin seeds, flax seeds, Chia seeds

I still keep my carbs under 25 grams and eat 3000 cal a day

47.5/47.5/5

(bulkbiker) #4

I read up lots about cholesterol and my total doesn’t worry me any more.

#5

cholesterol score is 100% irrelevant.

trigs, HDL ratio and inflammation scores (CRP) are relevant.

please watch

(Bunny) #6

Reminds me of plant based diet regimens, to the unknowing that it is the chromium rich foods that are reversing the diabetes not the vegan rich diet itself so they can point fingers at the ketogenic diet with OGTT\GTT.

Likewise fat helping vitamin K be properly absorbed by cells but blocked when excessive glucose (sugar) is the culprit causing the radial arterial calcification!

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Then you have those who do not understand omega 3 to 6 fat ratios (PUFA) and who think by simply cutting out a certain fat over the other are really losing the battle they are so desperately trying to avoid in futility!

Very sad, really!

Hard to believe 2 + 2 = does not equal 4, it must equal 5 because somebody with a pseudoplatonic degree in something says so or they are bribed? This has more to do with health information in a Orwellian political context of cognitive dissonance and double think in a nightmarish battle over common sense! Certainly is a mixed up world of impenetrable confusion!

(Todd Allen) #7

I was successfully lowering mine with Niacin. But after an NMR lipid profile my physician suggested my high LDL is a non-issue and I was already leaning towards that point of view so I’m not currently making any particular effort to manipulate it.

(Vincent Hall) #8

Great video by Ivor Cummins :broken_heart:

#9

@atomicspacebunny

So someone on a ketogenic diet eating a cup of collards a day should not have calcified blood vessels?

Hopefully this is correct because I am keto and definitely eat my cup of collards a day which has 836 mcg, more than 1,000 percent the daily vitamin k recommendation.

#10

@brownfat

Interesting, what is an NMR lipid profile and what is the difference between that and whatever test had you worried about your numbers?

#11

@Jason_v

Good point. I will update my OP to reflect this.

(Todd Allen) #12

I first had a standard lipid panel which looked pretty awful, LDL way outside the reference range though triglycerides were very low and HDL was high, good though it contributes to high total cholesterol.

An NMR lipid profile is one option for a better test which gives particle counts for the various subfractions of each type of cholesterol. Mine showed that my LDL was of a very favorable composition that put me in the lowest risk category despite having bad looking results on a standard lipid panel. Low triglycerides and high HDL is correlated with having a good cholesterol particle profile though not a guarantee so it was good to see the actual numbers.

#13

@brownfat

Thanks! I’ll keep this in mind next time I see my doctor.

(Crow T. Robot) #14

I wouldn’t say that. That graphic is very questionable. “No dietary requirement” for Vitamin K2? Hardly.

It’s K2 that helps clear calcification, not K1, which is what you get from leafy greens. Looks like they conflated the two.

(Jeannie Oliver) #15

On the topic of cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglycerides, saturated fats, and so on–it’s complicated. But the best information I have found that puts it in plain English comes from Dave Feldman. Here is a thread that will lead to most of his information, and he has a number of videos on YouTube. He has a protocol to help anyone preparing to take a lipid panel to lower their cholesterol and triglyceride scores in three days WHILE REMAINING KETOGENIC.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/the-feldman-protocol-thread/7789

If you want to dive into this issue in terms that make me wish I had more of a background in science or medicine, read the blog by Dr. Peter Attia.

https://peterattiamd.com/category/cholesterol-2/

#16

@jeannieo

Thank you. The cholesterol drop thing doesn’t seem to be about actually making sure you have consistently low numbers all the time but rather about making them drop for a small period of time to show a specific number on a test. Goes to show how flawed these tests probably are though!

Unless I am misunderstanding what it is? It seems like someone could have bad cholesterol numbers that are damaging their veins but then get a low cholesterol reading on a test with this method. However after the test their numbers would go back to being bad. But I am fully aware that I may be completely wrong.

I like Attia but his habit of writing incredibly long articles and breaking them up into 6 or seven individual posts wears me out.

(Rob) #17

I think you may be wrong since your premise is flawed. High LDL cholesterol (as long as it is the right cholesterol (pattern A) in a low inflammation environment) is irrelevant to your CV health. It is the inflammation of your veins/arteries that is the primary issue, leading to their calcification and consequent cholesterol build up in the plaques. The presence of cholesterol alone is not the cause of problems. As long as your LDL cholesterol is pattern A don’t sweat it or hack it per the Feldman protocols to get your doctor off your back. Cholesterol is NOT the cause of CV problems, it is a bystander to actual dangerous mechanisms - inflammation, calcification, plaque-ing, etc.

Do the research, decide for yourself that cholesterol scores are largely BS, especially in the context of a keto WoE and then forget about it. After long enough in keto, your numbers should get good enough to pass in unenlightened medical circles.

(Jeannie Oliver) #18

Fry, it’s not the test (lipid panel) that is flawed; it’s the inference as to what the tests reveal that is flawed. Someone once said, finding cholesterol at the scene of inflammation in the artery is like finding fire fighters at the scene of a fire. Cholesterol is vital to every part of the body and contributes to the integrity of cell membranes.

I plan to use the Feldman protocol to hack my next blood test for the simple reason that I need my family doctor’s support to track my progress in healing my fatty liver with keto, and I don’t want him to freak out over an irrelevant lipid panel.

By the way, I also found Attia’s blog hard to follow, but keep in mind that he is not writing for me, but for other doctors and researchers…

(Bunny) #19

You are so correct, why they have everybody so worried about this whole cholesterol mumbo jumbo is just so ridiculous it defies logic! Attention is all focused on the potential prognosis result, not the root core attribute (excessive dietary sugars) or causation. As long as I’m getting a fat soluable activator (vitamin K2), and dietary sugars are not blocking everything, the whole CV risk health concern and worries are solved! If I was a constant sugar burner then I would be panicking at the potential prognosis in contrast to the numbers!

(Candy Lind) #20

EXACTLY. Dave Feldman’s protocol(s) help folks with closed-minded physicians to keep them calm, but he has also collected so much data that his research is prompting a much harder look at what serum cholesterol numbers really mean. Ivor Cummins maintains that the numbers don’t mean much unless you do the NMR tests that show if you have small dense LDL (which can embed in the artery walls). He’s a doctor who’s saying instead of looking at that, we should be doing a CAC (non-invasive heart CT looking for calcium) instead. It’s inexpensive, and shows ACTUAL DISEASE instead of trying to gauge some kind of risk marker.

The folks whose cholesterol numbers go through the roof on this WOE (way of eating) are called “hyper-responders.”

Look on youtube for Ivor Cummins and Dave Feldman and watch what they have to say. Dave actually frequents this forum, so there’s lots of great info here as well as on his website, “The Cholesterol Code.”

(Jean Taylor) #21

Fasting is supposed to improve all that. Check out Jason Fung.

(Candy Lind) #22

That was a mis-statement on my part. He’s not a doctor, he’s an engineer (which is a good thing IMHO). I’m back trolling for info on Feldman Protocol because I’m about to do a three-day to see what happens.