4 days in and maybe not getting enough fat?

#41

Two weeks and two days now, and not losing the weight I had expected to. When I weigh myself first thing in the morning, I’m seeing about 6-7 pounds below my weight before I started, but then I eat or drink anything and for the rest of the day my weight is back to where it was before starting. I ran out of patience using an app to record everything I’m eating - too much weighing and measuring and calculating to get the inputs into the app accurate - way too much effort, even though I’m retired. I have become MUCH more aware of carb content and I think I’ve done a very good job of drastically cutting back on carbs - no potatoes, no rice, no bread, no veggies with lotsa carbs, no peanuts or root crops, etc. Sugar, same thing - no sugar (or sweetener) in coffee, no more PB&J sandwiches, no ice cream, no chocolate, no anything that tastes sweet. Any meat I eat is well-marbled or even fatty. I eat plenty of good veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, etc.). I get a moderate amount of exercise - an hour or so 3-4 days a week on a stationary bike and treadmill. All that and still just barely into ketosis when I use the test strips.

My frustrations with this is driving me to consider using one of those meal planning services (I purchase and prepare the food) so my entire food intake is “pre-managed” for carbs, sugars, AND calories - or maybe something like the Mediterranean Diet?

So, maybe too many calories overall, maybe STILL too many carbs in spite of how closely I’ve been watching it, or something else?? Maybe I’m just not patient enough? Thanks for any more suggestions!

#42

As far as I know, keto strips are useless. You eat low enough carbs, you get into ketosis, don’t worry about strips.
It’s irrelevant what your weight does during the day, of course it tends to go up, you eat and drink.
I personally would never consider meal planning services and mediterranean diet is too carby for me but well, it’s your choice. Keto is easy enough but if you think you need a bit more carbs, you can go higher and staying low-carb, you don’t need mediterranean diet for that with all those higher-carb items…
I would be patient, you started not long ago, give it time unless it feels horrible for you. Losing fat takes time and it’s often normal not to lose anything in the beginning when you change your diet.

I don’t know if you eat too much carbs, it’s individual and you track your carbs, not me.
I don’t eat “plenty of good veggies” because I would end up with too many carbs but maybe it’s fine for you, it’s possible, I get carbs from nearly everything. Tracking is easy when you eat very simple and similarly every day, I can do that now. But I probably will stop tracking soon and just continue with similar days and if I am hungrier, I add some fatty protein so my carb intake won’t go up. I don’t think we need to worry so much and measure everything unless we want to use up our personal carb limit as I did in the beginning when I still clung to my decent amount of veggies, well, it was that or no keto. But it got easier.

I’m not sure a meal plan is good for you. It’s too forced, what if you need more fat or protein or calories on some days and less the next one? Staying hungry isn’t fun and eating over satiety might be unplesant too. I usually say we are not robots. So some flexibility is needed. Plans made by others has not much to do with our individual needs to begin with.

(Jane) #43

^^^ this

Keto is not a quick weight loss diet so not sure what your expectations are. Two weeks is nothing! You haven’t even come close to becoming fat-adapted where the real benefits of keto kick in.

Stay off the scale for a month. Focus on delicious, full fat foods and don’t go hungry.

If tracking is too much trouble then simplify your meals to just a few ingredients. Only takes a minute to punch in bacon and eggs.

#44

But if the whole point of Keto is to get into ketosis and burn fat, don’t I have to know if I’m staying below the carb threshold and in ketosis, or not ? I think I’m cutting out the carbs enough, but not sure.

(Susan) #45

I have been doing Keto since February, and I have never bought the strips or blood meters. I totally understand if some people love using them, as everyone has their own way of doing things. I am on a tight budget and so I felt it was an unnecessary expense for me personally is all.

How I keep track (for free) is on cronometer.com -like I told you about above in another post. You simply type your foods in there, and it calculates it all for you. The only thing you have to really worry about is your carbs. If you keep them as low as possible, below 20 for sure, the lower the better though, then you will be good =).

#46

It surely helps some people in the beginning… But if you get effective at using ketones, little amount of ketones doesn’t say much, I’ve read that and it sounded logical but I really know little about keto strips as I couldn’t even buy any, I tried.
I knew I got into ketosis because I felt it but yeah, it’s not easy, it’s very very subtle in my case, I am so sure only because I got fat adapted later, that was a change impossible to notice. Now I know a few signs of ketosis in my own case so I can guess when I am in ketosis even if I don’t actually feel a clear change. And I know I am in ketosis below a certain amount of carbs so tracking my net carb intake is enough. I know it’s more complex for others but staying below 20g net carbs usually do the trick. It’s such a popular number because it’s safe. It’s almost 100% you are in ketosis if you consume this much or less. Very close to 100%, there are few things you can be more certain of in life. As far as I know.

#47

I’ve been quiet for a while, trying to focus more on what I’m eating, working on reducing carbs more and more, and monitoring calories. I had a few days off the plan (Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc.) but generally I’m eating much, dramatically fewer carbs than before. When I found it pretty easy right away to quickly give up some of the stuff that I used to REALLY like (pretzels, sandwiches, rice, potatoes, sweet deserts, LOTS of sugar in my morning coffee, etc.) it must have given me a sense that this keto stuff was gonna be easy - but that’s not how it’s been going. I’m finding that getting low enough on carbs to get into ketosis is really difficult for me.
And I’m finding that limiting calories so they’re low enough for me to lose weight (which I haven’t been too successful at, so far) is just as important. Knowing that one of the keys to Keto is getting the carbs down to get into ketosis and burn fat, I’m becoming a “carb nazi”, and I’m getting close to that 20 gram \ day threshold, but apparently, getting close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades - so far, no or very lite ketosis (I use the test strips), and after losing a few pounds, weight loss has stalled.

I also found that some of the so-called keto stuff from Atkins is BS - live and learn . . .

I measured, weighed, and logged everything I ate yesterday and (big surprise) I was over on carbs and over on calories. SO today I’ll look at specifically how I can cut back on carbs and calories even more. I’m seriously thinking of using one of those meal plans where they specify everything to “guarantee” ketosis and weight loss.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #48

Most of those plans include a lot of fasting. Sometimes two or three continuous days. Are you prepared for that?

What kind of calorie goal do you have.?

What are your carb sources?

You may not be ready for this either, but if you put most of your calories into meat, eggs and high fat dairy, you should see ketosis in a very short time, with a surprising decrease in appetite.

(Scott) #49

[quote="TexasYankee, post:47, topic:94

470"]
And I’m finding that limiting calories so they’re low enough for me to lose weight (which I haven’t been too successful at, so far)
[/quote]

While you are working on lowering carb (this is the single most important step) I would ignore all else. Just focus on carbs. I think it is a waste of time and counter productive to limit calories until you have everything else covered. You may be surprised if you find out the your calorie intake is naturally lowered without going through the pain of forced restriction. Here are the things I think are key areas to concentrate on first. There is plenty of time to tweak and adjust other things later.
Carbs <50g when this is achieved
Carbs <20g
Healthy fats are your new friend, embrace them!
No snacking between meals (eat more fat at meals)
No sugary drinks
People will argue this but no diet drinks (no positive and possibly a negative)
Drink an adequate amount of water.
Increase salt intake, I do this by salting food and mid morning I just pop some in my mouth.
Give it time. It took me months to get away from a macadamia nut or almond snack in the morning. This was also an indicator that I was becoming fat adapted too. I am 19 months in and just eat real food low in carbs (except wine). I don’t measure, count or restrict calories. My only carbs are the incidental ones from small portions of veggies.

#50

[quote=“TexasYankee, post:47, topic:94470, full:true”]
I measured, weighed, and logged everything I ate yesterday and (big surprise) I was over on carbs and over on calories. SO today I’ll look at specifically how I can cut back on carbs and calories even more. [/quote]

I can relate :smiley: It’s my goal since several years, unsuccessfully, I tried a lot of things and I think I know the solution for myself. Since the last time I wrote here I got more experiences.
Avoid plants as much as you can, just like most dairy (the ones with lactose) and you won’t have problems with too much carbs. Maybe it’s too strict for you, I don’t know, I couldn’t do even near that for long but it’s okay now and it seems it’s my only chance. The difference between my carnivore (or dirty or almost carnivore, that works too but the basic attitude is avoiding plants. I am bad with moderation if it’s carbs/plants) or “normal” days is HUGE. And it’s not like I eat vegetable dishes on my carbier days, I realized they are pretty much impossible on keto, at least for me, under normal circumstances.

I simply can’t stay below 30-40g net carbs if I allow plants, I never could do that. Except on carnivore, it’s super easy then. So maybe you need to stop eating certain plants and lower your carbs. You seems to be similar to me: more carbs, more calories and simple keto brings too many calories. Maybe gradually, maybe selectively but you should change your diet if you want results, it seems. Plants are usually quite carby. Oils are fine, very very low-carb plants (especially the ones you can eat in small amounts because they are satiating) may work but that’s it. I know it’s best for me to forget about plants except in tiny amounts like spice.
Another option is exercising more especially if you are similar to me regarding that too. I eat less and need more energy if I raise my activity level a little, I feel better too, it has lots of benefits and absolutely nothing against it. I am a miserable idiot not being more active, actually. A true, properly functioning hedonist doesn’t do that.

But you are probably different a bit so you should find your own method. But lowering carbs still sounds a valid idea.
Maybe changing you fat:protein ratio…? If I want to consume little enough calories to lose, I minimize added fat and focus on protein. Fat satiates me not well at all, it’s great to massively overeat on keto if I focus on it.
Timing, number of meals… Try out things. Though it seems extreme low-carb makes this less important for many of us… Find your sweet spot regarding carbs, it may solve a lot of problems. I like when I don’t need to plan, decide how much to eat or focus on my eating window at all.

(Jon Addison) #51

The calories aren’t so much important. But keep the himalayan sea salt close by as it is very beneficial and try to mix in some intermittent fasting. That is where the real benefits start to kick in.

You will know you’re doing Keto right when it dawns on ya how much focus has been put upon eating all these years.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #52

What test strips are you using (blood or urine)?
Also, why don’t you post some sample meals/days and we can help you figure out how to improve.
What is your calorie target? Most people here don’t count calories…

#53

First off, thanks much to everyone who responded with suggestions and encouragement and explanations! To answer a few questions and ask some more, here goes:

I’m currently at 215 pounds and I’d like to get to 185 or so.

Like others have said, carbs in almost everything, but mine seem to come from stuff I wouldn’t expect - sun dried tomatoes, Super Blend salad, and the bell peppers and onion and mushrooms I put in a morning omelette, roasted almonds and some other nuts - I guess I wasn’t checking closely enough, or getting lazy, but they’re all off my food list going forward.

“if you put most of your calories into meat, eggs and high fat dairy, you should see ketosis in a very short time, with a surprising decrease in appetite” - I can manage that approach, but I grew up thinking that green stuff provided required nutrients and fibre - where does that come from with just meat, eggs, and high-fat dairy?

I never drink diet drinks or sugary drinks any more (for years now), I drink plenty of water, and LOL, I am already a heavy salt user, so no issue with salt intake.

I am on a statin drug for cholesterol management, and when I last donated blood I saw a rise in my cholesterol number (200=>220), but I’m guessing that will do back down or even lower when the ketosis kicks in, right?

I walk three miles and either ride the indoor exercise or the outside bike 10 miles, weather permitting, at least 3-4 days a week, so I think that’s enough exercise, right?

I had been using the urine test strips, most days showing no or just over the edge into light ketosis.

#54

[quote=“TexasYankee, post:53, topic:94470, full:true”]
I can manage that approach, but I grew up thinking that green stuff provided required nutrients and fibre - where does that come from with just meat, eggs, and high-fat dairy?[/quote]
From meat, eggs and high-fat dairy, surely. There is a reason people can live even on just meat, it’s very nutritious and if you get rid of plants, your body needs less from certain essential nutrients… Of course there are various approaches, I surely eat organ meat as well and I won’t give up my eggs and cheese either while some people only eat non-organ meat from a single animal species. I just started to flirt with carnivore so I will research more but the experiences are promising and I personally feel better without vegetables so I will pursue that direction.

(Scott) #55

Peppers and onions are sneaky carbs, you can have them but you are going to need to limit them. I am not a doctor so I am not going to tell you to stop taking statins but you may want to look up David Diamond YouTube video talks on statins. There is a book that I have heard about call I think “Lipitor, the memory stealer” that I want to read. In the beginning keto will likely show an uptick in LDL but that is not all bad because large fluffy LDL particles are good where the small dense ones are bad. I plan on getting the blood NMR test soon to determine my particle size. My last test was 3 months in and my HDL was over 85. I’ll know more soon. Forget about the pee strips they only work in the beginning to detect wasted ketones your body didn’t use. When your body burns them you stop wasting them.

(Jack Bennett) #56

You can add leafy green vegetables to your diet with essentially no calories. For example, four cups (1/2 lb) of chopped kale adds about 125 kcal. The only way they are going to add significant calories through green veggies is if you add butter, bacon, cheese, oil, etc.

(mole person) #57

Yah, carbs are super sneaky. That’s why it’s important to do at least a bit of tracking when you stall out. It seems you are on the right track now.

Also, remember that all foods except meat and pure sources of fat have carbs. Don’t forget to keep a count of the dairy and egg carbs. I went months thinking I was doing great and then did a tracking stint to figure out a stall and found that I was having over 20 g of carbs in my coffee cream alone daily.

How many meals are you eating daily? Do you drink coffee, and if so, does it have cream in it? Do you ever snack? If so, on what?

There are several things that can lead to a stall. Carbs are super important though, and should definitely be a first priority to get in hand before trying other things.

We all grew up thinking that. But try to find a single essential nutrient that can be found in plants but not meat. It doesn’t exist. Not only that but often the same nutrient in meat is in a more bioavailable form. We are animals and not plants. When we eat meat we’re getting the nutrients in the same form that our own body stores them. With a lot of plant nutrients our body has to jump through inefficient hoops to make them usable and a lot gets lost.

With respect to fiber, there is an equal amount of science suggesting fiber is bad for you as good for you. Basically, there is no good evidence for any fiber requirement.

(FRANK) #58

@gingersmommy:

Please share your recipe for sauce and cream soup with the group.

Thanks,
Frank

(FRANK) #59

Bell pepper & onion tip: When I cook with these two, I grate the onion or pepper with a fine cheese grater. You can use way less volume (=less carbs) but still get the flavor in your dish.

So if a recipe calls for 1/2 small onion, I will grate a 1/4 or less and still get the results.

(Marianne) #60

I have gotten so I don’t really follow a recipe, although I’ve listed it below. It’s something I’ve made up, so not hard and fast - play with it to your personal preference.

A lot of these ingredients are by taste preference. My husband doesn’t like cumin, so I leave it out for him. I have also made it with store bought beef stock - very good. Same with the cheese sauce. Once you know the basics, you can just throw things together. A lot of times, I make the soup in five minutes for a pick-me-up before I make it to dinner. Takes me five minutes and it is warm and satisfying.

Cream Soup:
• 1/4 stick of butter
• Xanthum gum for thickening – you can leave out if you don’t have it (1/2 tsp. mixed with hot butter above, until smooth – a package of xanthum gum will last you probably a year). Lately, I’ve been leaving it out. It’s hard not to get slimy lumps of it.
• 1-1/2 c. heavy cream
• 2 c. water
• 1/2 chicken or beef bouillon cube (or beef stock)
• 1 teaspoon cumin
• 1 ½ teaspoons chili powder
• ¼ tsp. cayenne pepper (or more)
• 1 8 oz. package shredded cheddar cheese
• 6 small breakfast sausage (like Jimmy Deans), microwaved and chopped (or you could add chicken, or just leave it plain, without meat)

Directions:
Add butter, xanthum gum, crushed bouillon to a medium pot. Add cumin, chili powder, and cayenne and cook to release flavors. Add cream, water and sausage, stirring continually to incorporate. Simmer until thickened. Add cheese; stir until melted.

Cheese sauce:
2 Tbs. butter, melted
2 oz. cream cheese (cook and whisk until smooth)
3/4 c. heavy cream
4 oz. cheddar cheese, or less (or you could add some parm)
pepper or cayenne