Focus on the big picture

(Tom Seest) #24

Lost my favorite Mother-In-Law this year to Alzheimer’s. My favorite Father-In-Law and Mother-In-Law followed their favorite doctor’s advice until she left this world behind.

While the Ketogenic communities are growing, and there’s growing evidence to support that they are growing, there are many varieties of Keto being evangelized and this can lead to confusion.

I was unable to convince my own favorite Mother-In-Law or Father-In-Law to try an alternative, even though they knew the odds were not in their favor given traditional medical care.

It happens.

Not everyone will be receptive to our messages. In many cases, they doubt us. In some cases, they may link Keto to traditional “dieting”. And, in some cases, they may have been insulted by too many people because they didn’t “Keto” the right way. In many cases, we’ll never know.

But, we won’t know if we don’t ask…

We may just have to ask and listen. And, maybe we can learn.

(Tom Seest) #25

Interesting numbers:

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/most-obese-countries/

Obesity doesn’t seem to correlate well with mortality rates:

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/death-rate-by-country/

Of course, other sources of data may vary…Still, interesting…

(hottie turned hag) #26

Yes, I’ve noted this. I think it has to do with homogeneous populations eating unprocessed foods in those cases. Different effects than on us 1st world folk.

(Tom Seest) #27

That’s kinda what I was thinking too. I’ll have to dig into it. I wonder how the obesity rates, mortality rates correlate with countries based on perceived level of medical care available? I’ll have to go dig for data.

(hottie turned hag) #28

Low levels is my guess.

Interesting sorta related fact I discovered when one of my kids developed Crohn’s in childhood: it’s fairly nonexistent in 3rd world countries and incidence among white middle class is predominant. The countries with the highest incidence are Canada -by strikingly LARGE numbers ahead of the rest-, USA, UK and ODDLY, Japan.

All very 1st world. That Japan is in the top 5 eliminates diet as a factor for sure (which it isn’t as Crohn’s is a disease of the immune system not the gut) and also race and culture.

(Art ) #29

I thought it might be the new Bing.

Where the # 1 search is “How do I get to google?”

(hottie turned hag) #30

This deserves the non sequitur award of the day
:trophy:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #31

First of all, I am sorry for your loss, Tom. That has to hurt. The number of people whose lives were either cut short or made miserable by our current dietary guidelines is a scandal.

As far as obesity and mortality rates are concerned, obesity as a result of too rich a diet is a new problem since the promulgation of the dietary guidelines. Up till that point, it was considered a form of malnutrition, since carbohydrate was cheap and therefore the recourse of the poor, who couldn’t afford meat.

(Kerin ) #32

Lol! In my city of 16,000 + 10,000 who drive through, we have 6 fast food burger shops, 6 pizza, 6 Chinese restaurants, 1 chicken 1 taco, multiple delis, 4 grocery stores, many gas/convenience stores with delis, and restaurants.
But the everyone you ask says there’s nothing in the mall. :balloon:

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #33

I usually move on when people start pushing back on suggestions that they can improve their WOE. Artificial sweetners for example. Agree, that generally they don’t (or most don’t) raise BG but they

  • raise insulin those that are IR
  • help you keep your taste for sweets when that can be dangerous

I’ve been successfully helping family, friends, co-workers move to this WOE/WOL. There is enough low hanging fruit to keep me busy. Okay so bad phrase.

Here I give some of these posters a chance but when they push back on what my N=1, or your N=1 demonstrates then I move on. Life is too short.

(Art ) #34
  • 1000 - I’ll be taking a page from your book.
(hottie turned hag) #35

is…

Excellent suggestion and is what I have done/do with great success :grinning:

(Bob M) #36

Yikes. For me:

  1. I have no idea what level of carbs I’m eating. I primarily just eat real meat, eggs, some cheese, some vegetables.
  2. For “Ratio of fats and proteins in line?”, I eat much higher protein than fat, typically, but not all the time.
  3. For “Some amount of prolonged fasting?”, I typically eat 2 meals a day, but try to do some 24+ fasts when I can, some OMAD, some 2+ day fasts sometimes.
  4. For “Overall calories consumed less than activity level?”, I absolutely have no idea, and most likely, no one else does, either. (I went to the gym this morning and lifted weights for about 25 minutes, then did about 20 minutes of HIIT. How many calories is this? I have no freaking clue, and neither does anyone else.) Having said that, I’m down somewhere around 60 pounds and have gained somewhere around 10 pounds of muscle. I don’t weigh or calculate any food, ever (save for when I was using a CGM to see if high protein intake caused high blood sugar – it did not).
  5. For “Are they even using tools to track calories in both directions?”, I have never a used any tool ever for calories in the 5.5+ years I’ve been doing low carb (save for when I was using a CGM to see if high protein intake caused high blood sugar – it did not).

So, basically, I’m breaking all of your rules, yet still doing fine.

#38

It doesn’t work the same way for everyone. Where you are on the IR spectrum and the status of your pancreas and liver functions will alter protein tolerance.

POLL! Plus an attempt so explain a few things about ketosis

Using Heart Rate Variability (HRV) tesing is a more recent way to determine whether overtraining is an issue. There are many devices and apps you can use for this, but here’s one place that has info about it.

https://elitehrv.com/

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #39

For me, the miracle of keto is that my metabolic numbers all dropped to normal range and my heart rate and blood pressure are back in the normal range. I also lost 60 pounds in a few months, with absolutely no effort on my part, and the weight has not returned in two years. Following my former pattern, I should weigh about about 100 lbs. more than I do now. And more to the point, I might very well have become a full-blown diabetic by now, too.

I suppose you will rejoin that I have not regained the waistline I had in college, to which my reply would be, Is it really worth the effort that would take? Yeah, I’ve still got extra fat, but I’m healthy, and since I like the idea of keeping my fingers and toes, that suits me just fine. Metabolic health and stable weight? I’ll take 'em!

(Jane) #40

My town (can’t call it a city) has no grocery store, no fast food restaurants, one gas station and one Mom & Pop restaurant that isn’t very good.

We cook a lot :laughing:

(Jane) #41

Well fuck me running. I’ve broken all your rules except for fasting while losing 40 lbs, maintaining for a year and still registering ketosis according to my KetoMojo blood meter. Eat at restaurants all the time, enjoy some of the nut flour substitute recipes, don’t track, frequently go over 20 carbs. :woman_shrugging:

My husband maintains his weight loss and lack of inflammation that caused him joint pain on 50-100 carbs a day. He never had to keep his carbs below 20 or track but his metabolism was not wrecked like mine.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #42

I think you are both lucky wirth your tolerances. Your own N=2. Some of us are more carb sensitive. That said I don’t feel restricted. I feel liberated because my body and mind together are teaching me what I can and can’t do.

(Jane) #43

I know - that is why I posted to counter the dogma and absolutes in the OP. Doesn’t apply to everyone. We all have to find out what works and what doesn’t. I fast for autophagy but I also get the benefit of being able to eat more than 20 carbs and maintain so double bonus.

For me, targeting zero carbs would not be sustainable and I would have given up long ago.

YMMV

(Parker the crazy crone lady) #44

I’m a “lucky” one also, and can eat more carbs without going out of ketosis. I generally stay well under 20g carbs, but it allows me to (rarely) say yes to a piece of fruit.