My Keto, low carb journey


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #62

It is possible to be insulin-resistant and still have normal blood sugar. According to the late Dr. Joseph Kraft, a noted diabetologist, insulin starts to rise as early as twenty years before blood sugar starts to get out of control and a diagnosis of diabetes becomes official. He called the pre-diabetic state “occult diabetes” and "diabetes in situ."

This is a sign of insulin-resistance. The over-secretion required to force excess glucose out of the blood often causes the blood sugar to dip too low. Then we need to eat more carbs to recover, and the whole cycle repeats.

That is excellent. It means you are keeping your insulin low enough for your body to be metabolising its fat store instead of glucose.

Don’t forget that there is salt naturally occurring in the foods you are eating, and that counts. Signs of insufficient salt are headaches, lightheadedness, and constipation. If you are experiencing any of these, then a bit more salt will help. If you’re not experiencing any of those effects, then you are getting enough salt.

If you get too much, the side effect is the opposite of constipation, lol! As long as the salt tastes good, we can safely take more, but if it starts to taste horrible, we’ve had more than enough.

P.S.—Also be sure to drink to thirst. That will help keep salt and the other electrolytes in balance. There’s no need to go crazy and drink many litres a day, just drink enough to keep your thirst satisfied.

(Allie) #63

Sodium is essential though, to everyone.


Definitely not me :smiley: I finished my salt experiment, that amount ruins my health (I am dramatic but I hated the effect) in 4 days. Not the same way as back then when it probably wasn’t even that high but it’s horrible at the similar level. Never again. I keep my salt intake around/below 5g from now on just like basically always before, that is the perfect for me.

We aren’t all close to the statistical average!

I am still curious about little salt. At least with zero sodium for 5 days, I don’t get nearly as unwell as with too much (under normal circumstances, of course. not sweating in the sun :))… But I will add salt as soon as I get the warning about it being too low so I am very safe.


The salt always tastes great in food if my tastebuds like that level and it always tastes horrible alone to me. Just saying. But I go away now :slight_smile:
Main thing is everyone should figure out what is their very individual salt intake is and how to get it. I just need to salt my food to be properly salty and never take any additional amount (well a lick doesn’t hurt, that’s tiny).

(Chuck) #66

I am doing keto, low carb to lose weight by burning my own body fat instead of glucose. This means low carb but it also means if I am eating too much fat then I don’t burn fat if I am eating the fat I need for fuel instead of forcing my body to eliminate fat from the cells for energy. I understand the insulin resistance but I think it is over thought when the person is only wanting weight loss. And I think that the person then uses keto with only the weight loss in mind does think or notice the other benefits they are getting. And from my personal experience keto doesn’t automatically mean fast weight loss. And too many I talk to believe that can do keto lose weigh quickly then return to their previous bad eating habits. I am slowly understanding the importance of low carb lifestyle to my overall health, but I have to find my own balance of carbs, and fat, and protein. So far that is very low carb and less fat than for curing diabetes and other illnesses and a little more protein due to my age and my older body’s need for the extra protein that it no longer can efficiently absorb.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #67

This, surprisingly, is not actually true. Drs. Phinney and Volek have found in their research that getting enough dietary fat helps increase the rate of fatty-acid metabolism, so the body ends up burning more fat than otherwise.

Also, it is important to eat a ketogenic diet to satiety, so as to be sure we are getting enough food. After a couple of weeks on a keto diet eaten to satiety, people generally find their appetite dropping and they spontaneously eat about 1000 calories less than their energy requirement, the extra thousand calories coming from stored fat. Of course, as they go along and their excess fat gets used up, if they keep eating to satiety, then their appetite will gradually increase, to the point where all their energy needs come from their diet, since there is no more extra fat to use.

Prof. Benjamin Bikman, likewise, has data to show that under high-carb conditions, the fat cells are restricted by excess insulin to metabolising no more fat than they strictly need to survive, but under low-carb, high-fat conditions, they are able to “uncouple” their metabolic rate from their own energy needs and essentially waste energy by metabolising extra fat, quite apart from releasing fat to be used by other organs in the body.

(Chuck) #68

I guess I have the right to disagree. What I agree with is that high carbs is the problem. But due my age and me being already reasonably healthy for my age. And not everyone is a carbon copy of everyone else. I am now losing weight with the low carb diet and fat intake between 50 and 60% of my daily calories, sure it is slow which is perfectly fine with me. And I read so much on here that protein can be turned into glucose is not prevented.


You and me both.

(I NEVER started to automatically eat 800-1000 kcal on keto (thankfully)… That TDEE- 1000 kcal is surely for people with some extreme obesity… And probably not all of them are like that either…
I have about 40lbs to lose. Never started to eat at ANY deficit, maybe on carnivore sometimes if I really focus on eating little and miraculously it happens. It’s not that easy. I choose the wrong items or mess up timing and I overeat fat very much. Having tempting meat isn’t so great for my fat-loss unless I do everything right but that’s not easy.)

Surely there are various, even surprising cases but these imaginary dreams are pretty far from reality for very many of us…

(Chuck) #70

If low carb is done correctly with the right mindset, there is no need to can micronutrients, calories, carbs, protein or fat. With the proper understanding of the body and listening to the body you will net be hungry to the point of overeating. You have to know your binge triggers and stay away from them. For me that is anything with grains, or pure sugar in it. Thankfully I don’t care for desserts in the first place.


Of course, if one does things perfectly, it should be okay. I never will be able to do it perfectly. If all these years and efforts weren’t enough… Not much more to research and my core personality won’t change. Of course I keep trying but I can’t change anything, I already do what I can and I believe I have found the method long ago (finetuning may be needed though).

I don’t call getting satiated binging. I almost always had a hard time with it. I don’t even eat so much but I need to eat even less to lose fat. Well, tough luck :slight_smile: I have been trying since 12 years and I am not super displeased with myself, I came a long way. If I had more energy, I would be pretty pleased, being fat or not.

At the moment, it’s all carni food I eat? Though I don’t call it binging… It’s not that stupid compulsion. I just am not satiated, lately even pretty much desire the food so I eat. It won’t change, I can’t not eat when I have proper urges for it.
As usual, I still blame the carbs first as I don’t exactly do carnivore now, I have my little extras. But I try to go back to proper carnivore and we will see. Not like I can’t massively overeat there but not every day and one doesn’t matter.

Desserts are fine, they don’t cause me problems, I am too big of a veteran for that. I always ate desserts so I have lots of experience. Now I eat carnivore ones, I had to ban the newest as it was irresistible and too protein rich… Sigh. But I get fattier meat so hopefully I will overeat fat instead of protein for a while (cheaper)… And then some chill times should come. I am usually better close to carnivore. It’s an unusual phase. But I never lose fat so that’s not new. But I am determined in 2023. Just too hungry (or unsatiated, I can’t stand that either). I think it’s time to gain muscles then…

(Chuck) #72

We are all different and react differently to food and a lot of different issues. I am also severely hard of hearing but my hearing loss is not the typical loss and I have been hammered because the typical hearing aids programmed the typical way makes my hearing worse when wearing aids. It took me years to make audiologist understand. The problem with so many they only see black and white when there are millions of possible explanations for a human condition

(Allie) #73

Me neither. No reduction in appetite at all.

Maybe it wasn’t a massive change for me though as I had been sugar free for a long time before accidentally stumbling into keto…

(Megan) #74

Paul said “people generally find their appetite dropping and they spontaneously eat about 1000 calories less than their energy requirement”, not people spontaneously eat only 1,000 calories :slight_smile:

(Chuck) #75

Well before keto I was forcing myself to no more than 1500 calories each day, with keto I am eating on average 1750 calories each day and losing weight without that much activity due to it being the middle of winter here. Before keto I was forcing myself to be active even when I didn’t feel like it. I was forcing myself to eat less than I wanted. You are 75 so you don’t need all those calories is all I ever heard from most doctors and their nutritionists.
When I fired the nutritionist I told her I was tired of starving myself.

(Chuck) #76

This is a confession:
Before starting Keto I read a number of books and articles about it. I downloaded several carb manager apps to try. And I have been using the app for calorie counting since 2011. For September through the end of the year I faithfully logged everything I ate and my weight in the loseit app. Since the first of the year I have been winging it by not logging in the loseit app. I find myself less stressed, I find myself snacking much less, and I just eat what I know I should and must to stay low carb. Now I do keep a journal and have since I was 6 years old. This morning I went and entered the food in loseit that I have eaten over the last couple of weeks just to double check my judgment. I am averaging right at what I should to slowly lose weight I am actually eating less carbs, but eating a little more protein. My weight is much more consistent with about an average of 1 to 2 tenths of a pound lost per day. And I am not seeing any yo yoing in my weight. Note I weigh myself daily and take my BP daily and log it for my doctor as I am desperately trying to get off all medications. I am now getting monthly lab test to monitor my cholesterol, and potassium and zinc and all of the other stuff. I am off 3 medications cholesterol, and acid reflux and diuretic. I am still on on BP medication. My doctor seems to be scratching his head over my low total cholesterol level, but my HDL is coming up, and my ldl doesn’t seem to change. Now I must say I don’t eat eggs everyday, old twice a week. But I do eat lots of meat. And I eat green vegetables of all kinds. Plus nuts, pork skins, some cheese and sardines in olive oil. My daily calories are averaging 1750 that has been a average I have been eating for the last 3 months. I am never hungry, I fast daily between 16 and 20 hours. And I spent at least 30 minutes on my indoor bike daily.
I forgot to mention I that I am working on adding more salt to my diet while making sure it doesn’t cause me to retain water or elevate my BP.

(Robin) #77

Well done!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #78

When Ancel Keys conducted his famous Minnesota Starvation Study during World War II, their definition of a starvation-level diet was 1500 calories. It should probably be pointed out that the goal of the study was not to see what happened during actual starvation, but to see how people would cope with short rations during and after the war.

So it’s not surprising that you found yourself quite hungry on a standard American diet at 1500 calories. If you had been eating a ketogenic diet, you probably wouldn’t have been quite so hungry, since you would have been able to mobilise stored fat to meet the rest of your energy needs. The typical man eats an average of 2500 calories/day, so the 1750 you report is about right for eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet to satiety. As you shed your excess fat, your food intake will need to supply more and more of your energy needs, but if you continue eating to satiety, that process will be automatic until, once all your excess fat is gone, your food intake rises to fully provide the needed energy.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #79

This is the typical experience. I have a mental block about calorie-counting, and one of the things I love about keto is that I was able to effortlessly shed 80 lbs./36 kg without exercise, counting calories, or ever going hungry.

Stay in touch with your doctor about that. If you start feeling dizzy and lightheaded, your dose may need to be lowered.

That is from eating more saturated fat, probably. It’s an easier way to raise HDL than by taking drugs. And most people on keto find their LDL improving, though there is that group of lean-mass hyper-responders whose LDL goes up. But Dave Feldman is doing research to test his hypothesis that the higher LDL in a LMHR is not a sign of increased cardiovascular risk.

By the way, though many doctors don’t seem to realise it, even Ancel Keys agreed (from his own data) that dietary cholesterol intake has no effect on serum cholesterol levels. So the high cholesterol in eggs or in any other food is not a concern.

We need more salt than the dietary guidelines recommend, as a couple of recent studies have shown. The PURE study also showed that even salt-sensitive hypertensives are healthiest in the same range of sodium intake. It’s just that their health risk rises much more steeply than other people’s if they get too much salt.

(Chuck) #80

It has been so long since I have eaten 2000 calories in a day I don’t know if I could handle it. My thoughts are that I would like to get down to at least 185, but I would love to see if I I would be comfortable and energetic at somewhere closer to maybe 170. Seeing I weighed 167 when I turned 21 and I saw it for a will when I was in my mid thirties. I am wondering if that would even be possible for me again.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #81

If you are eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet, then you can eat to satisfy your hunger without worrying about what your actual intake is. That’s the point. There are people whose appetite-signaling hormones don’t work properly, but for now, don’t worry about it. If you are one of those people, it will become apparent as time goes by, and you can deal with it then.

The thing to remember about calories is first, we are not bomb calorimeters. Second, the (kilo)calorie values assigned to the macros (4 cal/g for carbs and protein, 9 cal/g for fats) are rounded-off averages and not all that precise. Third, our metabolic rate adjusts to compensate for our food intake.

Low calories is a signal to the body that a famine is going on. It responds by cutting the basal metabolic rate, cutting back on non-essential processes (such as nail and hair growth, and the reproductive system), hanging on to resources to get us through. Excess caloric intake creates the opposite response: elevated basal metabolic rate, plenty of energy used on non-essential processes, increased fatty-acid metabolism, and mitochondrial uncoupling in adipose tissue (in which the fat cells burn more fat than they need to, simply to waste heat).