My intermittent fasting low carb journey

keto
(Chuck) #262

The only food I have a tendency to overeat is sweets and bread. I was raised on all sorts of meat, and veggies, which include lots of different types of beans As for as bananas what I mean is just turning yellow. My doctor said that the riper the bananas the stronger the sugar content is. The same is true for most fruits.
But at this point I am limiting my vegetables to mostly broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, green beans, onions, tomatoes, and kale. I do almonds, almond milk, walnuts, and pecans.

#263

Yep, the starch converts into sugar. One can feel that in the change of sweetness but there are other changes in the flavor too. I almost always prefer the flavor of a very ripe fruit - but most fruit becomes way too sweet for me then, that’s a bit sad. One of my favs (I have a tree) is Williams pear. Super flavorful, one of the few items being able to be as tasty as some good pork according to my taste… But it becomes really fragrant and juicy only when it’s ripe and nearly unedibly sweet.

Humankind worked so hard to make fruits super sweet and now I evolved into a state where I can’t eat super sweet fruits easily… Sigh. But no problem, at least I eat tinier amounts, usually.

I can overeat a lot of things. On keto, I overate cauliflowers and I had to ban it. I can’t overeat meat alone, probably but if I have many other items, I can. Just occasionally but it was still annoying to have about 4000 kcal on a day on carnivore (1000g pork shoulders and many other things)… But it provided fun macro numbers, at least :smiley: And a tiny shock.

But I got carried away again.

(Chuck) #264

I think I am addicted to the loseit.com app, I have been using is since the summer of 2011. I feel that at times I eat more because of the app than I would have otherwise, and other times I feel I don’t eat enough because I am afraid of going over budget calorie wise or now days over my total carb goals.I have made attempts to quit using the app but something just seems to keep drawing me back.
I think I am afraid I will start gaining weight again, or I will lose my discipline control that the app appears to give me.

#265

I use a site but it never gave me discipline… Tracking just helps me to figure out if I ate enough during the day. My body is super sensitive to my protein intake. My mind too. My body want 130-230, my mind wants as little as possible, so 130g. I have just planned a day, it’s possible I will somewhat stick to it this time. Yesterday I had too much protein and too little fat, I just don’t notice it without tracking (I should considering I had various lean meats… but no).

It seems to me that you are good at not overdoing calories so it’s surprising a bit that you are worried about that… But maybe you fear you lose this actual… IDK, mindset/circumstances/attitude, I can’t grasp it and then you go too far…

(Robin) #266

I used Carb Manager when I first began keto… just to learn the ropes and get a general idea of my macros. But you’re right…. You may need to try only checking once a week, then a month, etc.
I know what you mean about thinking you are way too low on calories or need to back off the next day. We’re far enough along in our journey now that our bodies are our best and most insightful apps!
Some days we need more, some days we need less. An app does not take that into account.

I know. Lot of folks use them daily and enjoy it and that’s great. But eating to get specific results on your app kinda misses the point for you. For me too.

Maybe go a week without tracking. See how it goes. You surely already know what you’re doing. Then if you truly need the app, no worries.

(Chuck) #267

I am debating about taking a break from logging what I eat. I do feel I have my eating patterns down pat now. But as a disciplined person some things are hard to stop, and the fact I am not a person that eats the same food over and over. I must have my variety when it comes to what I eat. I only eat eggs a couple times a week, we do cook enough when we cook to have enough leftovers for multiple meals, and we mix up the leftovers so we don’t eat the same meals from leftovers. So you see I could run into carb issues if I am not careful. But then I am starting to lean towards just keeping it real, meaning eat real foods and not worrying so much about calories or carbs. I am staying with my hard rules of no wheat or oats. I am very much limiting myself when it comes to eating fruit, rice, and potatoes. Other than green beans I haven’t added any beans back into my diet.

(Chuck) #268

I am starting to low my carbs because eating more carbs and intermittent fasting has been giving me what I thought was a sinus headache but I am finding to be a withdrawal headache due to too many carbs. So lowering carbs back to no more than a total of 50 carbs a day is removing the headache.

#269

You write smart things :slight_smile: Ideally we only need to check sometimes, maybe when we change something major. I had such a time on low-carb, I only figured out how much I should eat and it went automatically for a while. It’s the best.

Tracking helps with that too, I mean, if I see small numbers for days, I think about how to raise it. A single day is no problem, sure, we should be aware of it.
Tracking is particularly useful or at least informative for people who doesn’t notice that they eat too little, too much or the wrong macros longer term.

And IDK about others but I badly need my regular break from tracking… Maybe because I have so many items every day… I never got the hang of simple but eventually it will happen.
I couldn’t take a break on normal keto as my carbs was barely low enough all the time, now it’s easier on (near) carnivore.
For Chuck, not having a fixed carb allowance and apparently not having a danger of some too serious carb creep, it’s not a problem. Breaks from tracking are nice…
Even with a 50g carb limit, it’s easier than with the common 20, those few carbs really easily add up except on an extreme low-carb diet.

(Chuck) #270

I have been a data cruncher for a very long time, it was what i did before retiring, along with research and analysis, it is in my blood and my soul being. I was introduced to journaling at the age of six and have journals going back to 1953. Most of my notes are very cribbed and not something the average person would be able to figure out. Since I found digital journals I have a daily journal and a health journal a long with a couple of journals for some other data storage.

(Robin) #271

Makes sense. I thought you were pretty lucky if you could go so high without repercussions. But under 50 is reasonable. And will probably take some tracking to get the hang of that too.
You’re doing great… learn, adjust, evaluate, adjust. AKA listening to your body.

(Chuck) #272

I am finding this forum extremely helpful and interesting. There is the purest, the animal products, etc. as for as my I am more or less in the camp or natural food or real foods, and low carbs. I am struggling to find what carbs I can eat and just how many carbs I can safely handle. I love meat of all kinds, fish and seafood or all sorts, and fruits and vegetables of all. I now a few of my triggers, which are anything with wheat and I believe oats. I also love anything chocolate but I can satisfy that hunger with 90% cocoa intense chocolate. And now that I have figured out that salt isn’t the evil thing I was told I am happy that I can have my pickles.
As someone that isn’t diabetic, and has finally gotten my BP under control without medication I have no health issues other than my age. Sure I am overweight in the eyes of the doctors and nurses that have blinders on and depend on the BMI charts, but I am not over fat for my age. Sure I could use to lose about 10 pounds of fat but would love to replace it with 10 pounds of muscle. Yes I can dream even at my age. I am back lifting light weights and doing setups and squats. I didn’t even thing I could but definitely can but 6 months ago no way. Life is what we make of it!

(Robin) #273

60 pounds off my 1st year. My last 20 came off the last 2 years. It’s not uncommon. You’re still morphing. Like a Transformer!

(Chuck) #274

There are so many beliefs, opinions and if what I would label as cults, when it comes to what is healthy, weight management and nutrition. You can even find books, research papers written by doctors and scientists to back each and every one of the factions. The only thing that the majority of the books and articles agree on is that SAD isn’t working on its own merits, a few have indicated that SAD along with the proper fasting routine can actually work. But what I have found interesting and a common denominator is that fasting intermittent or even multiple day fasting will work and help regardless of the diet. The other common denominator in a number of the findings that I have found is that the key is for the individual to find and to stick with what works for that individual.
The only real keto benefit for a mandatory 20 grains of carb limit was noted for children with epilepsy and patients with cancer, and there is some evidence that it can help with dementia. I haven’t read much about diabetes and keto because I am not diabetic. I do know my sister and brother in law has managed to control their diabetes and pre diabetes by eating low carb below 100 grams of carbs per day average. I also know by my lab work and health that keeping my total carbs at or below 75 total carbs per day I have improved my almost hyperglycemia, my blood sugar is slightly higher more in the lower end of normal instead of just below normal. And I haven’t had any dizziness or feelings of being light headed.
What am I really trying to say? We are all different and not clones of each other. We truly come from different backgrounds and eating styles. I sometimes think there may be something to the articles about eating for your blood type. My blood type is A and that indicates that my ancestors were more of fruit and vegetables and less meat. Well I do enjoy eating all three, but none of them in high quality. I seem to be doing quite well by not eating anything with wheat or outs, and keeping my intake of potatoes and rice to a bare minimum.
But hey I haven’t ever been someone to run with the crowd, I have thrived doing my own thing and when it didn’t work, I researched and put the puzzle pieces together to work for me. And I believe that is what everyone should do, it is what I taught my kids and my kids have taught their kids.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #275

We recommend a limit of 20 g/day, for a couple of reasons. The story going around the forums six years ago was that Carl and Richard really wanted to recommend no carbohydrate at all, but were afraid it would frighten off people who needed a ketogenic diet. So they settled on 20 g/day as something that would give success to everyone except the most insulin-resistant people. Twenty g/day is also the limit recommended by Dr. Eric Westman to patients at his obesity clinic.

In reality, a metabolically healthy person with no insulin-resistance could probably eat as much as100-125 g/day, but the rest of us have to greatly restrict our carb intake in order to lower our insulin enough to get into ketosis and fatty-acid metabolism. In my view any diet that does that is a ketogenic diet, whether the carb limit is 100 g/day or 0 g/day.

The therapeutic diet for epilepsy, by the way, was almost carb-free, and it was extremely low in protein, to the point of stunting the growth of a number of children who were on it. Fortunately, more recent research has shown that a ketogenic diet with a more-adequate amount of protein is just as therapeutic.

You might also find it interesting to know that a ketogenic diet was the standard treatment for Type I diabetes, before the discovery of insulin and the first patient treated with insulin therapy in 1923. And a low-carbohydrate diet was the standard medical treatment for obesity, beginning with French doctors in the early nineteenth century, and spreading to England in the middle of that century when he treated his patient Willam Banting with it. Fortunately for Banting, Harvey had just returned from a medical conference in Paris, where he heard Claude Barnard talk about a low-carbohydrate diet for obesity.

(Chuck) #276

Like I have said it depends on the individual needs. I will never apologize for not following the crowd and for doing my own thing. It has served me well and I wouldn’t be alive today if i had followed the crowd in a number of occasions.
I am not say that anyone is wrong, I am only saying what I am finding right for me. I am finally when it comes to what I eat doing what I feel is working and that I am comfortable with doing for a long term.
Like what I have told the head nurse of my VA health team, is that the word diet rings in my head, as a punishment for eating the wrong foods that are the government guidelines, a lifestyle is finding what works for me, and if it means going against what the powers to be so be it.
Most of the time I can follow the keto plan but not that strictly, I am going to eat my summer fruits be it in much less quantities that I normally would. I am learning the real strength of intermittent fasting, which is a way for the body to handle the occasional bad eating decisions. Fasting gives the body’s digestive system time to process and absorb nutrients and also a time to rest. And if fasting is done long enough and the eating time short enough during the day the body will use its own fat as energy. And if I couple that with a low carb lifestyle still I can even burn more fat. The key for me with what time I have left here in this life is to be healthy enough to enjoy that time without stressing over if I am eating too many carbs or calories or not enough.

#277

Fasting can definitely mitigate my problems on a carbier diet. But if my eating window is small enough, I won’t overdo my carbs to the same extent to begin with :wink: But it helps in other ways as well. Yes, it’s good to let poor body rest and handle what it got. High-carb OMAD is a style where I am surprisingly fine for a few days (never tried for longer). Once I had no choice but eat carby but I still had control over my timing (and OMAD was a very logical, easy choice for me). High-carb with a big eating window is a horrible combo for me. Or it was last time I checked. I just can’t desire carbs enough to eat like that anymore.
So it makes perfect sense to me that IF and EF helps even with a too carby diet for the one in question. It still won’t become really good but still, better. Maybe not for everyone as IF isn’t for everyone let alone EF.

(Chuck) #278

I can definitely say, that eating a high carb diet and intermittent fasting doesn’t accomplish for me. I did intermittent fasting for decades but ate high carb and at best I slowed down my weight gain. I have found with a window of eating intermittent fasting I am actually losing weight slowly and trimming down. But I believe that my window is too long or I need to completely stop eating any snacks between my 2 meals. I am reading a couple of books that seem to be very helpful by Gin Stephens. I am not going to make any decisions on them until I have had longer to finish reading them and time to experiment with what I read. But for now my goal is to shorten my eating window, hopefully stop snacking and stop counting calories. I may never stop journaling what I eat but just keep the journal in general terms. I have journaled for close to 70 years now and have no plans to stop.

#279

Yeah, a carby IF wasn’t enough for me either. OMAD is the special thing as I have a natural food limit per meal (not a very hard limit but it’s natural to stop there) and while carbs go a long way to boost my calories, it’s not a big difference for a single meal. It’s very different for the whole day. Especially on carnivore.
And it’s so very convenient to eat only once. Or maybe twice when my meals are smaller (only on carnivore) but with peaceful satiation between them. I very much like fasting - as long as I feel satiated and satisfied. Carbs tend to mess with both unless I have an OMAD meal. That’s usually quite effective.
I never could lose fat on keto TMAD either (IF 19/5), too much food due to a too big eating window (and too much carbs). Carnivore may be able to do the trick if I do things right.

(Chuck) #280

The more I read and ponder my history with weight loss and diets, the more that the near window of eating each day and the one meal a day makes sense to me.
The more I understand about insulin spikes and what causes them the more the concept of eating once a day make sense in keeping the insulin spikes down to the bare minimum per day. I now have an understanding of the fact that no calorie sweeteners can cause insulin spikes as well as other carbs. It also seems that protein can cause insulin spikes but I am still skeptical and researching that fact. But I am understanding more the role of intermittent fasting and the need while fasting to not add even no calorie sweeteners or flavoring to water, tea and coffee.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #281

It used to be believed that excess protein was automatically turned into glucose. However, the picture has been shown to be more nuanced than that.

According to Prof. Benjamin Bikman, he and his graduate students have data to show that in the context of a high-carb diet, insulin rises with the amount of protein consumed, and the insulin/glucagon ratio skyrockets. In the context of a low-carb diet, however, the insulin rise from protein is matched by a corresponding rise in glucagon, so the insulin/glucagon ratio remains static, and the body remains in fat-burning mode.