Hi to all please help

[Mon1]

Eat more meals a day, prioritize protein, the hormonal stuff does make it worse, if you’re willing to look into HRT, that part can become an option though, you don’t HAVE to go through menopause if you don’t want to.

I’m currently having HRT review as I started 3 months ago but possibly dose not enough. Thank you for your advice and suggestions.

[VirginiaEdie]

I agree with @lfod14. On your reset, don’t IF, just eat your keto meals when you get hungry. IF and extended fasting are just setting you up for binging because your body thinks it is starving, well…. and it probably is. I think a month or so ago, you were mentioning all the fasting you were doing and it was suggested you were doing too much at the time. (I admit I have not looked back through posts to confirm this.) Remember, the more fasting you are doing, the less micronutrients your body gets. It’s likely over the past few months you depleted your vitamin and mineral stores and your body went into feed me mode, because it was craving more nutrients.

While many people who follow this way of eating use IF and extended fasting, it is NOT a requirement. And… even Jason Fung and Megan Ramos suggest mixing things up to keep your body guessing.

[Just_Juju]

As much as food is a problem I think my trigger is alcohol (wine) I will start with removing all that from the house. I can’t stop at just one glass and then that what leads to eating and binge and in return the next days I’m deep in self hate and depression.

It’s a really good thing that you know this and can point to something that is sabotaging your efforts. That is a win! Acknowledgement. I long ago stopped drinking alcohol recreationally on a regular or occasional basis because I did not enjoy its impact on my body the next day. Also like you after one or two drinks I suddenly have no self-control, and I didn’t like what that did to me. I wasn’t the person I wanted to be with alcohol in me. I wasn’t depriving myself of pleasures and happiness avoiding an occasional social or celebratory drink as some might say, I was depriving myself of saboteurs. There’s a difference.

I knew other things in my household could sabotage my efforts too, so when I say I dug in with such intense determination, that meant I also got rid of anything and everything in this house that potentially could have derailed me from day one. I would have plenty of time to work on my self-discipline after I became healthier. I knew my mental health and anxiety at that time could easily undermine my attempts at self-discipline. Today I function like most people do, normally, in full control of myself and I have fantastic self-discipline. But I needed a healthy mind and nervous system to get to this point. Drugs failed to deliver that to me, Keto didn’t.

If you ever need someone to talk to in moments of weakness or despair, and public chat is too intimidating for a particular moment, shoot me a private message. I’m available all the time. Curing ourselves from the SAD is no different than any other addiction, and it’s possibly worse. Any other addiction that needs to be overcome utilizes accountability friends, so we should too. We have plenty of voices in our communities and families and online minimizing the seriousness of SAD on our health, so we really need our Keto friends to lean on and hear their voices of reason counteract the nonsense.

[scaperdude]

lost 2 stones since February. Since then I have started to experience almost uncontrollable binging. I did various types of fasting most wad 72 hours.

Wow. That’s a lot. Good for you. I actually gained some fat this winter as I tried to gain muscle, so this spring I have been losing the excess fat - so far some 8 pounds of weight, but my scale says some muscle is going with it.

I think my main problem is feeling of depression I lost so much weight but I still feel low and down.

I would try only short bouts of intermittent fasting… the most I do is 24 hours… dinner to dinner. Your binging may be your body telling you it needs some nutrients. I supplement with magnesium bisglycinate nightly as well as small amounts of calcium, boron, etc. If your minerals are imbalanced, that may be contributing to your depression and cravings. Most of our serotonin is actually made in a healthy gut biome, and travels up the vagus nerve to the brain. I do keto with small amounts of berry fruits in my morning goat yogurt, and always have a good helping of usually some buttered cruciferous vegetable, asparagus, etc, in the evening to feed beneficial gut bacteria to make serotonin… my feelings.

[Mon1]

I knew other things in my household could sabotage my efforts too, so when I say I dug in with such intense determination, that meant I also got rid of anything and everything in this house that potentially could have derailed me from day one. I would have plenty of time to work on my self-discipline after I became healthier . I knew my mental health and anxiety at that time could easily undermine my attempts at self-discipline.

@Just_Juju thank you for your reply. Tomorrow I’m attending therapy currently I’m doing cbt but I really don’t think it’s helping me at the moment. Doctor is suggesting antidepressants but so far i feel I don’t want to go down that route yet. I feel as I really need to keep my head clear as my other half suffers from EUPD and I had to step up and take charge when he had a really tough times in the last 2 years. I don’t know how I can clear my house of all the foods that needs to go as I cook for him too. He had his own demons! It’s very hard to know what to do for the best. I just feel I need to appear in control when I’m actually not. That is so sad.

[Mon1]

Thank you for your advice I really appreciate it.

[Mon1]

I encourage you to start over, determined to adhere to the diet properly in all ways and not allow yourself to falter a single day over the next four months. And refrain from any kind of EF. Allow your IF to fall between 12:12 and 16:8. Don’t eat past 7:00 pm at night no matter what. Utilize some high fat at that 7pm mark to hold you over until at least 8 or 9am the next day. Let that be the only fasting you do

I been thinking how I can achieve this as I haven’t had a breakfast for years @Just_Juju I would be absolutely terrified about the amount of calories I consume if I have 3 meals per day!!! Because I’m so petite every extra couple of pounds just sticks to me. I even stopped putting a drop of milk in my coffee now. I think I’m becoming obsessed about calories.

[Just_Juju]

hug

I had weekly therapy appts for almost 8 straight years. It was nothing but a bandaid over a gushing wound that couldn’t stick. Seriously, it’s Keto that cured me. But now? Now I could probably benefit from therapy because my head is unscrambled and I’m not so sick. Therapy is helpful to the average healthy person without too extreme of conditions. It requires the ability to analyze and hang on to what you learned and apply it on the go as things happen, while remaining calm in the midst of a storm. But if you’re really sick in multiple ways it’s like giving a straw to someone drowning in the ocean so they can get a breath under water now and then. It’s not a life preserver at all.

But like I said, today I could benefit if I needed to go. I feel more normal now and now I finally understand how so many people say they benefitted from therapy. They weren’t as sick as I was and had more typical normal lives with occasional stressors or tragedies to deal with. They weren’t facing stuff coming at them like a machine gun from every angle of life and every person they knew for as long as I was. That’s why they try to get you to do all the meds to hopefully regulate you to a more normal place so you can benefit from therapy. But what’s in the medicine with its many side effects combined with what’s happening in our bodies from our food supply is a recipe for disaster. It can’t normalize anything. Only you can do that by getting your body clean on the inside.

[Just_Juju]

Because I’m so petite every extra couple of pounds just sticks to me. I even stopped putting a drop of milk in my coffee now. I think I’m becoming obsessed about calories.

I’m petite too!! And we have it harder because 1800 or 2000 calories to someone taller or a bit larger is like 1200 to us. Our BMR is much, much lower. Our windows for weight gain and weight loss are much smaller.

[Shinita]

I haven’t had a breakfast for years @Just_Juju I would be absolutely terrified about the amount of calories I consume if I have 3 meals per day!!!

I don’t think you need to force-feed yourself. You just need to get the necessary nutrients in the eating window that works best for you. Don’t force IF either, some of us do it naturally and some of us badly need it - but some people can’t eat enough even in 8 hours, it’s amazing how different people are.
And there is a mental part, maybe you eat enough but you still restrict something that bothers some part of you…
I don’t remember reading about how much food you need.
But EF, that isn’t for everyone. I see no problem with IF all the time but even that isn’t for everyone, of course. You are able to do EF so probably IF isn’t bad for you - unless you eat too little on it. Or too much. I met people who started to overeat when they eating window became too small for them (strange but apparently happens). Or something else like mental anguish due to the chosen eating window. My own IF is pretty flexible. I can’t handle too much restriction or struggle so if I happen to fancy food early, I usually eat it. It depends, I try to figure out how I get out better from the situation. As long as my food items are well chosen, I hardly can mess things up too much.
As you feel down, you really don’t need extra struggles. Some easy rules would be nice if you could quickly figure out what works for you. Sometimes we need a big change to be able to do what really works

I don’t think I am particularly helpful, I didn’t even grasps the situation but I wish you the best!

we have it harder because 1800 or 2000 calories to someone taller or a bit larger is like 1200 to us

Yeah. Fortunately, 2000 kcal for my SO and 1200 kcal for me (I am 5’4", not very tiny but my energy need is annoyingly low compared to what I am content with) are both starvation so we can afford a bit more. Still not eating as much as we wish but we don’t go hungry for long if we eat the right things.
So I can’t envy my SO, he may keep his figure eating more while I stay fat forever eating less on average but he actually needs way more calories to avoid feeling starved. Hours of hunger is normal for him eating 2800 kcal a day. It’s even much worse if he eats less carbs. But yes, we all hear about people eating a ton, using up even more calories and losing fat easily when they are bigger, more active, more muscular…
And it’s easier to get our nutrients when we have a bigger calorie allowance. Especially if we need high protein as I do. Sometimes I don’t know how some people function on a very carby diet, I can’t afford even all the fat that comes with my protein sources, definitely no room for carbs! But they don’t do good to me so it’s quite obvious what I should do regarding them.

I even stopped putting a drop of milk in my coffee now. I think I’m becoming obsessed about calories.

That’s very bad And I can’t imagine the milk making a difference (I mean, calorie wise, dairy especially the sugary ones can mess with some people) if the used amount is really tiny. But one needs someone else to drink most of the milk I suppose. I have that. But coffee can bring extra, problematic calories, indeed, that’s one reason from many I try to quite coffee. But I have learned to use a very, very tiny amount of something in it (today I made egg milk with a little milk) so even my zillion coffees aren’t as bad as they could be. Quitting is hard. Black coffee isn’t tasty to me. I choose my battles and having coffees with little, mostly innocent something in them is the best I could do this far. Forcing myself into a pure, real fasting window (zero calories instead of the few I often have) would have resulted in something worse. I can’t handle feeling restricted. I have some mental strength regarding to resist food/drink (very, very tiny, it’s against my hedonism) and I need to choose well when to use it. Using it on avoiding coffee would make me go a bit crazy and quit in a few days. While allowing something especially if it’s not fully ideal but not harmful makes me feel more relaxed and less rebellious.
And sometimes I stop tracking as tracking all the time (especially on my wilder, freer days) wouldn’t do good to my mental health.
Not like I can track, I eat fatty meat so my macros are a mystery, I make an educated guess but I am even more off than on vegetarian keto. Too deep obsession with calories, I mean when someone is fixated on some chosen numbers and don’t want to go over them even by ONE gram (maybe you aren’t like that but I saw too many people like that, it’s horrible) is pointless anyway as we can’t track accurately - and definitely can’t tell our energy need. We may have a good idea about it if our activity level is always the same and our body is reluctant to change the speed of metabolism but it still varies a bit. So if I track, I can see very vaguely if I do things right. If not, I try to analyze what is wrong (I keep my egg+fat, dairy, meat, everything else separately, I use the breakfast/lunch/etc. sections for that in the program I use so I easily see if I had too much dairy again, my usual problem until lately) and change my food items, maybe my timing. But I can’t trust the actual grams too much. Somewhat especially the carbs and protein but the fat? That can be very off. Still, I like to know how much I ate approximately. And especially the dairy problem. So tracking may be helpful, showing problems but don’t trust it too much. And it’s best if one doesn’t need it. I actually know that how much red meat I need, I add little else and bam, great day. I need to track as I am not as good yet, I need other items. Or if someone can eat the right amount in 1-2 meals (or 3 if it works for some*) and all is well automatically, they can stop tracking. I had that on low-carb when I lost fat just fine eating as little as I comfortably could. Good old days.
*While I always ate too much on 2MAD on keto, sometimes I can handle 3-5 meals on a very meat heavy diet. So food choices are quite important when it comes to figuring out the ideal number of meals. If that is a thing for the one in question. There isn’t always a strong correlation between the number of meals (or the size of eating window) and our calorie intake. There was for me before carnivore but then it changed. The size of my eating window is still important but the number of meals isn’t so much (and they went up significantly). Somewhat, sometimes but as long as I strongly focus on (not super fatty) meat, I won’t easily overeat.
That is my goal, finding simple rules that work where I don’t need to track all the time (that doesn’t help anyway right away, I track, I don’t enforce macro rules). And where I don’t need to use my tiny mental strength at resisting food when I may fancy some at the “wrong” time

Good luck!

[Just_Juju]

I been thinking how I can achieve this as I haven’t had a breakfast for years. … I would be absolutely terrified about the amount of calories I consume if I have 3 meals per day!!!

Just to clarify I wasn’t encouraging or discouraging “breakfast”. I was simply giving an example of a frame of time that would be safe to unconsciously “do IF” - in the very beginning. By all means if your body is already regulating itself to not feel any need for food before the lunch hour, then that’s fine too. But in the beginning if you’re hungry before noon eat something Keto approved, and track it.

I was speaking more to “intentionality” in incorporating fasting into your day. I believe in the beginning (first few or several months,) that IF and EF should not be actively pursued and one’s focus should be solely on getting the right foods when you do eat, learning to shop/cook, sticking to your macros, and tracking. Let your body learn to adjust to ketosis and do the internal repairs it needs to do. All of that is time-consuming for our energy and attention and fasting adds another layer of complexity that can complicate things and add anxiety, yet it is not necessary to use at first. Keep it simple.

You can always bump things time wise, like choose any 10-12 hour window. I’m just suggesting that forcing yourself to only eat in a particular 6 or 8 hour window when you’re trying to become fat adapted might make it harder. But if you find it easy to only eat between noon and 8, then it’s not interfering and it’s actually good for our calorie requirements. So long as it is happening naturally. It’s important that you don’t eat right before falling asleep though. You do want some moving around time after your last meal of the day.

As for fearing calories being the thing that makes you afraid to eat breakfast when you are hungry, then you need to plan out better what and how you eat during a given day. I relate to it being much, much harder for small people to stay between 1200-1300 calories/day when it is spread out over a full 10-12 hours, and breakfast can take a large chunk of that leaving me feeling restricted and anxious for my remaining meals, and hungry. Calories become more important in that frame of mind. So what I did is created a routine of drinking 24-32 oz if water with electrolytes and ACV every morning with vitamins - first thing upon coming downstairs, and sometimes a bulletproof tea or coffee late morning. I noticed that the electrolyte drink alone removes all hunger almost immediately, and satiates me for quite some time. Lotsa energy too. The regimen also provides some things my body needs. If I know I won’t be back home until after 2pm or nearer to dinner, I sometimes will make a bulletproof drink late morning. This actually solidly holds me over until dinner. It does add calories but I usually am only eating a main meal at dinner so it works and I don’t feel restricted by calories. Most days I don’t even need it anymore and I can just make a healthy, meaty lunch for that day. So I don’t eat breakfast either! And it works.

I get into trouble with calories, fat and protein with my meats - like my ribeyes or fatty roasts. I can put away 10-14 oz easily in one go. And if it’s higher fat the calories soar.

[robintemplin]

I have not paid attention to calories since I first began with keto.
Because I can become obsessed about numbers and drive myself crazy. Plus, if you are truly keeping carbs 20g or less, it will work out.

I eat twice the amount of food now, just the right food.
We have years and years of brainwashing to overcome, when it comes to calories.
You have to trust the process. Relax, lean into it and trust.

[Just_Juju]

I’m always trying to wrap my head around this belief because I actually do gain weight when my calories regularly exceed 1400 eating the right Keto foods. Maybe it will be different once all my fat is gone (still have 20-25lbs to go) and my body changes from losing all of it? Then maybe this theory might work?? For some reason I have a window where I don’t lose fat and don’t gain fat and it’s between 1300-1400. When below I lose when above I gain. I tracked this for my first full year.

I actually spent three months this past year trying the theory that calories don’t matter and I put on 5-6 lbs (ended up at 161) and some extra fat was added around my belly. I went back to controlling my calories and I’m now back down to the 155 I started at when I tried that.

I don’t eat too many carbs and eat a LOT of meat and cheeses. Why doesn’t this “calories don’t matter” work for me?

[Shinita]

I can put away 10-14 oz easily in one go. And if it’s higher fat the calories soar.

I can relate. 20-21 oz is a perfect amount for me from fatty meat sometimes… Thankfully that satiates me pretty well, I just need a tempting dish where I actually can eat this and almost nothing else!
Too fatty meat doesn’t work for many of us but leaner meats can be quite nice too. Or my mix: I start with leaner meat and follow up with something fattier now. Some people find fat first better, I understand when they do it for breakfast but I don’t do breakfast ever. Getting my protein is important, I had times when I only ate too much because I needed my protein and the fat was attached to it. Or before carnivore, vegs brought too much fat. Sadly, sometimes conscious thinking, planning, effort and tracking is needed or else we just overeat and stay fat, no matter the carb intake. Calories do matter a lot. It’s individual how much, apparently. That’s why people think keto slims down everyone. It doesn’t. I did it on/off since many years with no weight-loss, yes but others did it right and still couldn’t lose fat. Some even gained fat. It makes perfect sense to me, calories obviously matter for normal people. But I am aware it’s more complicated for some. My body couldn’t care less if I eat keto regarding fat-loss, if I overeat fat, I stay fat, if I eat little, I lose just fine, lots of dairy/sweeteners/sugars or not. (But I can’t eat little if I eat sugars and dairy. Sweeteners don’t seem to matter, rather help as on carnivore I need to eat fat if I want a dessert and sugar too if I want them sweet. I still choose carnivore, I just see the potential minor hardships).
My SO is the same, fat-loss is all about calories for him but he can’t even use more satiating food. We tried, he gets satiated by calories, the type of food matters little (surely he needs some fat and protein but not as much as I do and he gets it). I am very different but if I overeat, I still don’t lose fat, not even on carnivore. I lost fat on carnivore (a tiny bit once), keto (a tiny bit once) and not on keto (much, much more) but only when I ate little. It makes sense to me that some people get a bonus on keto but I never had it. I need to eat just as little on keto as on any other diet to lose fat. Sigh. It would be nice if keto gave me some extra energy but alas, nope.

[Mon1]

Hello everyone thank you for your replies. I’m just catching up on reading. As always thank you for sharing your experiences.

[Mon1]

For some reason I have a window where I don’t lose fat and don’t gain fat and it’s between 1300-1400. When below I lose when above I gain. I tracked this for my first full year.

I’m pretty confident that anything above 1200 calories was no weight loss for me. That’s why I fell in a trap of fasting as it made it easier to eat less but because I did mostly one meal a day it stopped working. So I pushed for longer fasts but that just made me really hungry once I started eating plus I just couldn’t cope with adverse effects of having diarrhoea once I started to eat. No matter how slow I was eating. I guess I will have to find the way to make this work for me. When I was really committed having my husbands foods around didn’t bother me. If I lived alone I would clear the house as it’s suggested. I have attended my CBT today and your words were playing in my head. It really is not working for me though I’m trying to participate in given tasks. It involves lots of work at home analysing my feelings. I need to pick a day to restart keto but I would find it easier if I’m at home on my own. My daughter is staying for a couple of days and husband is off so I find it difficult to commit. Im not looking for excuses just don’t want to fail as soon as I start. Thank you for all your advice and so much effort and time you put in to trying to help.

[Mon1]

It’s interesting how everyone is different thank you for sharing.

[Mon1]

Thank you Robin I will need to pick a day and restart!

[kib1]

Oh, I like your new avatar! Icon? The flowers.

I have a fresh start … Most mornings. Lol. Like that old commercial used to say, “Today is the first day of the rest of your life.”

[Mon1]

Thank you. I thought I needed a change. Hopefully it will be a better day today.