More results from my recent blood work

#21

If I wait until I feel thirsty, I’ll get less than 3 glasses a day. Unless I’m working in the yard or something and get a wave of thirst. Otherwise I just don’t. I had to create a routine for myself to make sure I get at least 64oz/day and I do feel it makes a difference.

#22

I don’t always wait until I get thirsty and I drink more than enough. I am a thirsty type… And I usually don’t sweat noticeably.
My water intake is similar on every day, I mean, surely it’s not the same when I cycle 4 hours in summer (I very rarely do that but it happened) but surprisingly close considering* as far as I can guess. I am just super thirsty and parched then but my body stops me drinking too much. I still don’t sweat very much, of course I can’t avoid it but it’s not as severe as for very many people.

*My ranges regarding consumption are normally huge, less so with water. For example, my fat intake is between 80 and 260g (it was 54g once, no idea HOW, it’s so not me) on keto/carnivore so doubling something is almost a modest raise for me :smiley:

But I never drink very, very much water. Once I got curious and drank 4 liters of water. It was horrible, I am not good at forcing myself though drinking is easy, it was little force, still… I felt dying of thirst nearly ALL DAY, something got broken (for that single day only) from ignoring my desires.

Of course, we don’t necessarily need to drink ANY glasses of water, we just need enough water in total and “enough” is very individual. I need to drink as my food tends to be dense, my SO is different as he can get half of his water need from grains sometimes (exceptional but he can do it occasionally) and the other half from vegs and fruits - and we have soups too, here and there. But he is active and he usually still drinks a significant amount.
I need my water bottle with me too but I drink it slowly, most of the time. Cardio would change that but I barely ever do that. Or high temperature but I hide in the house then if possible… I need to be careful not to get too inactive in summer.

No way I could drink over 4 liters, almost no matter what I do but I can imagine it’s because it’s impossible for me to get active enough for that… Just hiking for 10 hours doesn’t require much extra water, not even in summer. In my case, I mean. Apparently.

I don’t really know how much I drink as I can’t measure it but it can’t be too little. Anyway, I focus on my eating when I can, drinking too would be too troublesome. I am a thirsty type, I must be fine. I just know sometimes I get really thirsty (that’s bad as if it’s really serious, no amount of water helps), drink 5dl, bring up another 5dl in a nice big mug and 2 minutes later there is none. I can’t keep water around me in my room, it disappears right away, I don’t even notice… So that’s in the evening, one time… No way my water intake is low. But the vast majority happens in the evening and maybe at night (except if I do some strenuous activity but even then, it’s not as serious as in the evenings when I get really thirsty after sitting in front of my computer for 3-6 hours…? it’s my limit without water while awake without feeling utterly miserable). I don’t know WHY. I wake up, I haven’t drunk since very many hours and it’s one of the first things I do but it’s a minuscule amount and on my worse days, it’s just coffee. I had days when I only had coffee until mid-afternoon, not like it’s a problem hydration wise, my coffee hydrates me just fine, I just want to quit for various good reasons. And I tend to be awake late but my water intake is still disproportionally huge in the evening and later. Usually. Probably less so in summer. I would wish to measure but I can’t, I just forget.

(Bob M) #23

@PaulL and @Just_Juju As always, it’s probably variable. I think I do a pretty good job of having feedback, but others may not.

The problem with a lot of the studies in this area, is that they are run by entities who want you to drink more. For them, they want the idea to be that you can get “dehydrated” and therefore you should drink their special elixir that has everything in it to replace what water you’ve lost. And it’s only $6/bottle!

It’s like the manufacturers of processed foods: it’s in their interest that all that matters is “calories”, as then you can eat a cookie they make (or whatever), and it’s not their fault that you ended up eating 10 of them. You should be watching your calories more closely. Or gain the ability to only eat one cookie.

I lived in AZ and got some sand/rocks delivered. The idea was that you put plastic down, then this sand/rock stuff and wet it down. It formed a hard surface that then you didn’t have to do much with. It was only May (I think), and I was taking this stuff, putting it into a wheelbarrow, then carting that to my backyard, dumping it there, and raking it. It was so hot and I drank so much water that I couldn’t drink anymore. I had to go inside and rest.

But I find out from that book, that what I did was dangerous. Too much water can kill you.

But I’ve been in fights (online) with people where I say “drink when you’re thirsty” and they are adamant that being thirsty means you’re “dehydrated”.

(Central Florida Bob ) #24

It has been a while since I’ve read those bike-related things articles like, “how to ride your first century” or whatever your first long ride will be, but the standard advice when I read those was “drink before you’re thirsty.” As you say, their belief is by the time you get thirsty, you’re already starting to get dehydrated.

ISTRC that professional cyclists have determined they do start to lose performance before thirst shows up. That edge of world record speed is not the world I live in, but I bet for people that aren’t pushing for record times, “drink when you’re thirsty” is perfectly adequate.

(Bob M) #25

Back when I was biking, there was a punishingly hot day, and I had run out of water. I had to stop at a convenience store and get some Gatorade or something similar. (Not sure they had just water back then.) I get great after that.

There was another time when I was riding a ride and somehow missed a stop. That also was a very hot day, and I was dying by the next stop.

I think pro cyclists would have to stay ahead of it, because they in particular only have so many refill locations.

In the book above, he is mainly looking at marathons. There, the fastest runners are hitting 2 hours or so, and don’t drink any water. Cycling is different, as pro cyclists could be out 4, 5, 6 hours.

I was impressively slow, and it took me 8 hours to bike 100 miles.

The danger is for the really slow people, as they are the ones who are told to quaff water at every stop. They are the ones that can drink too much water and die.

But for those like me, who exercise at most an hour at a time, I don’t drink water at all during exercise. I drink 1 and 1/4 cups of coffee (yes, I measure it) beforehand, but nothing until after I’m done, showered, and coming to work.

And, there’s always the fights about how much coffee or tea should count. Do they count at all? Do they suck water from your body because they make you pee? I’m not sure.

#26

As far as I can tell you need an extremely large amount of water (3-4L) in a very short period of time (few hours) to get to the point of drinking too much. The warnings are usually tied to amounts drank within an hour. That’s not the same as drinking 2-3L over the course of a 24 hour day.

As one hospital puts it: There is no set amount of water that causes water intoxication. The kidneys can process about one liter of fluid per hour, so any amount above that over a number of hours can be risky.

I think both sides of the argument are too extreme. There is wisdom to “drink when you’re thirsty” but that becomes less wise the older we get when our thirst becomes a less reliable indicator and we need to be sure we are getting an adequate amount.

I agree most guidelines are circulated on the whims of industry manufacturers to increase sales.

We only get 20% of required hydration from our food and other liquids.

(Central Florida Bob ) #27

FWIW, my take on that is if you’re consuming coffee or tea regularly, your body adapts to it and has less reaction than someone who doesn’t. Time of day also matters because we get dehydrated overnight. Well, I do. Air conditioning with a fan running, too.

On my riding mornings (like today), I get up about two hours before leaving, and have two mugs of coffee. Not cups; each mug holds about 16 ounces. The first mug wants out about an hour after I start drinking and the second mug about 15 or 20 minutes later. I bring a water bottle with 24 oz of water but don’t finish that until I’m home, around 90 minutes later.

(Doug) #28

Bob, while perhaps some world-class marathoners might not drink during a given race, the overwhelming majority do.

They usually lose a significant, even surprising, amount of their body mass via dehydration (even with drinking during the race). Most drink less than 2 liters during a race - the majority probably less than 1 liter, and they don’t spend all that many seconds doing it (understandably).

The winner in the 2009 Dubai marathon - the mighty Haile Gebrselassie of Ethiopia - lost 9.8% of his body mass during the race, and it wasn’t brutally hot - temperature at racetime was 68° F or 20° C. Alberto Salazar lost 8.1% during a race in the 1980s, and had to drink 30 cups of water afterward to be able to give a urine sample for drug testing.

#29

YUP! When you’re Keto or Carnivore, can’t fast for that long before a standard lipid panel, if it’s an NMR you don’t have to fast at all since they’re directly measuring then. I wouldn’t push it much past 8hrs. Somebody eating SAD will be burning up stored glycogen for a lot of that time, and their metabloically fasted state won’t start until that’s nearing the end. When a Keto/Carnivore person fasts, that switch has already been flipped, and your’e not eating, so you’ll be releasing more fatty acids into your blood stream to burn as fuel, which throws off the test. It’s technically more accurate for you (sort of) , but then that number is applied to a scale of people who eat totally different, and that doesn’t work. That’s leaving out that their equation that’s giving you those numbers, isn’t correct when somebody is in Ketosis. IIRC, the total cholesterol and trigs will still be right, but the HDL/LDL won’t be.

(KM) #30

This totally makes sense, thank you. I’ve considered extending pre test fasting times, but what you say makes it very clear to me; doing that is going to push my blood fat levels sky high compared to an 8 hour fasted “carbivore.”

What would you consider the sweet spot for fasting time for a carnivore in order to have the truest fat profile possible?

(Geoffrey) #31

I won’t make that mistake again.

#32

Oh wow I never realized this. So if I’m standard Keto for past two years, I shouldn’t fast for more than 8 hours before a lipid panel? Or is that even too long?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #33

Yeah, it’s a big debate. I follow the advice of one doctor–who sounds very wise to me, lol!–who says that the diuretic effect of caffeine is not so great as it’s made out to be, so we shouldn’t worry about it.

Now for the big question: do I want another cup of coffee before bedtime? :coffee::coffee:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #34

Dave Feldman recommends 10-12 hours, no more, no less.

#35

I’d say as long as you’re due for a meal, you’re probably good. Again, that’s for standard lipid panels, if you’re getting NMR’s, it makes no difference what you do. Standard panels tell us very little in either case because you’re still dealing with the fact that the Friedwald equation doesn’t work as well with low carb eaters.

(Central Florida Bob ) #36

Sorry, but by “as long as you’re due”, do you mean if you’re hungry, or if it’s nearly the time you usually eat, or just what?

#37

Based on the norm of people usually eating a meal every couple hours, or no longer processing the last one.